Mucking Like Hell Featuring Ed Darcher

[: 00:00:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Hello, and welcome to another exciting episode of Ramble by the River. I'm your host, Jeff Nesbitt, and we've got a great show for you today in this world of climate change and fake news. It's really hard to say what the weather's doing, where you're at, but I hope it's sunny because it is sunny out here on the coast, up at Washington State.

dy almost c. Time flies. Huh?: 2022

Jeff Nesbitt: I was excited about the technology. I was excited about N F T projects and I was getting involved on the ground floor of some stuff that I thought was really cool, [00:01:00] and here we are a year later, and very few of those pieces of that puzzle continued to develop. Some of them have, there's still some development going on in AI art.

Jeff Nesbitt: Things like that, which I still am really into. We talk about that a lot in this episode, and those have continued to get better and better and better. But the vast majority of the whole crypto scene, especially with NFTs, has kind of imploded as far as general public interest is concerned. By April we had started to see things unraveling. By summertime, Tara Luna had collapsed, which is a, one of the major stable coins. And just a month ago, FTX collapsed. That's the one Tom Brady was all into. there was Super Bowl ads for it. That was only last year.

s taking a lot of heat right [: 00:02:00

Jeff Nesbitt: It wasn't a liquidity problem, but it was in fact something much more sinister, but more on that later.

Jeff Nesbitt: If you wanna reach out to Ramble by the River on social media, check us out on Facebook and Instagram at Ramble by the River and on Twitter at Rambleriverpod. Go to Ramble by the River dot com to get links to all this stuff and as well as the most recent episode of the podcast and links to the entire episode catalog.

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River, where they're able to [: 00:03:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Well, what are they listening to I'm so glad you asked. the Ram Fam gets exclusive access to content that's only available through this subs. One of those perks is early access to all of these free episodes of Ramble by the River. Every time I finish one, I throw it up on The Patreon immediately so that you get early access before it goes out to all the podcast players But there's more. Subscribers. Also get access to Ramble on the Road, the Companion podcast to Ramble by the River. It's a little more personal, a little bit shorter, and it's oftentimes just me driving my truck, telling you my thoughts, my dreams, my hopes, my fears. It's where I get to kind of just open up a little bit, and I really like it.

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Jeff Nesbitt: Every once in a while I have a guest on their in the truck with me, but usually it's just me and it's a good time. I think you'll like it too. If you're a fan of the show and you regularly catch these free episodes, you're probably gonna like this subscription.

four bucks. The highest here [: 00:04:00

Jeff Nesbitt: and this thing is nice. It is premium cotton could, could be a cotton poly blend. Actually, I don't actually have one of the shirts, but I've seen 'em and I've, I've felt 'em. Even my wife has one. I see the Ram fam walking around in them, and I'm jealous. To be honest. I want to get one, but can't afford it.

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ome news and current events? [: 00:05:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Well, yeah. No shit. She's not gonna work. with the feds for Sam. Ellison was very likely to cooperate with officials because of the fact that she had so much to lose here. Not only was she, Sam Bankman Fried's, former girlfriend, so she probably has some inside info, but at one point she was also the c e O of Alameda Research. The hedge fund. Authorities claim received billions of dollars that Bankman freed age 30 had diverted from Ftx

meda Research Received large [: 00:06:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Everybody knows that prosecutors just get their guy. There's gonna be somebody. They're gonna get somebody. So if they don't have enough to build a case against Mankin Fried, I could see them going after Ellison or somebody else for that matter. It just doesn't matter. They just wanna know that somebody's responsible.

Jeff Nesbitt: They just wanna know that somebody is gonna get punished. Carolyn Ellison. Is a key figure in the case Ellison would've had the greatest incentive to cooperate as it was seemingly likely that in his effort to exculpate himself, Bankman Freed would try to finger her. Oh.

was cooperating with federal [: 00:07:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Often when it comes to snitching, the first to get to the table gets the most lenient treatment. So it's smart to turn yourself in before others have had a chance to do so. A Manhattan based US attorney Damien Williams, revealed on Tuesday that some of Sam Bankman Fried's alleged accomplices have already flipped saying to anyone who participated in wrongdoing at FTX or at Alameda Research and who has not yet come forward. I would strongly urge you to come see us before we come see you.

Jeff Nesbitt: But when he was asked who was cooperating with the probe, Williams said, I'm not at liberty to say who's been coming in. Bankman Freed was arrested on Monday in The Bahamas on an eight count indictment.

Jeff Nesbitt: accusing him of defrauding FTX customers and using Alameda research funds to illegally make campaign contributions to both the Democratic and Republican parties. This guy was playing both sides.

Jeff Nesbitt: The shaggy [: 00:08:00

Jeff Nesbitt: My guest today is one of the most interesting people I've ever met. I first met this guy in 2007. I'd recently taken a job with Willapa, national Wildlife Refuge. I was just one of the bottom rung guys, one of the low guys on the totem pole, just a sprayer, field tech.

Jeff Nesbitt: The refuge had recently began making big strides on a project to eradicate Spartina Alterna Flora from the Willapa Bay Estuary, which is home to a thriving aquaculture industry. And that industry was immediately threatened by Spartan.

ter Growers Association, the [: 00:09:00

Jeff Nesbitt: They all had different strategies. I wanted to be on that airboat crew because that's the whole reason I was. I just, it was meant to be. This guy is a small craft operator to the core. I knew that's where I wanted to be. I wanted to get my ass on that seat, get that stick in my hand.

Jeff Nesbitt: They looked like a lot of fun, but there was also the Wilco crew, which was my last choice, because it was just a boring job. The Wilco is a giant amphibious vehicle, like basically a tank with sprayers on it, and you just fucking stand there all day long. Don't move. You just stand there. It drives two miles an hour and you just, when you see a plant, you spray it mind.

perator is just whipping you [: 00:10:00

Jeff Nesbitt: but In addition to the Wilco crew and the airboat crew, there was a backpack crew. Now these muckers were just the grittiest filthiest, rough around the edges. Toughest sons of bitches on the whole Bay because they were on foot.

Jeff Nesbitt: When the airboat sprayers and the Wilco sprayers were hopping up on their cushy vehicles with their padded seats, the backpack crew was loading their stuff up into a pickup and getting dropped off to hike their asses back through the mud. The crew leader for this group of cowboys was Ed Darter. I didn't know this at the time, but Ed was a former.

Jeff Nesbitt: He'd spent many, many years underground, and some people think that that had a strange effect on his mind. He didn't act like a normal guy.

ent and he was very loud and [: 00:11:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I thought he was cool.

Jeff Nesbitt: So when I first started at the refuge, they bounced me around a little bit. And sometime in that first couple weeks they dropped me onto Ed's backpack crew, and I was, eh, you know, not crazy about the idea of being out there on foot, not getting to be on the airboats.

Jeff Nesbitt: That kind of sucked. But you know, it seemed like Ed was a cool guy and he had the cool people on his crew. So I was okay with it. Made the best of it. So I threw my headphones on and filled up my backpack and started hopping out into the mud to go look for some spartina. And I mean at this point, I had been doing this for a while a little bit, so I knew the basics of spraying how to do it, but I wasn't very experienced.

but then I started to notice [: 00:12:00

Jeff Nesbitt: What's going on with this guy? So I pulled the headphones off and he's like, what the.

Jeff Nesbitt: And I said, what? What the fuck, man, this, this ain't a fucking sword fight. huh. It's not a fucking sword fight. Okay. You just point the thing and pull the trigger. Don't be waving it all over the place. You're wasting.

s way all the way out to me, [: 00:13:00

Jeff Nesbitt: And you know, he was pissed. He told me not to wear headphones anymore. From that day forward, I never wore headphones unless Ed wasn't there. He was my boss for that year at least. Actually even, you know, honestly, after that, when he wasn't officially my boss anymore, he was still my mentor. I still considered him a role model.

Jeff Nesbitt: I still tried to impress him with my many skills. I worked with Ed there at the Refuge for five years. I. Five years and after that he decided to jump ship and go work for a different organization, the one he still works for today actually. And I stayed on at the refuge and I got a promotion to become the new crew leader.

him. We developed a bit of a.[: 00:14:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I worked at the refuge from June through September usually. And then the rest of the year I was in college, going to school. Me and my roommate, Colten Chalker, friend of the show, lived up in Bellingham, Washington. I was going to Western Washington University for my psychology degree, and Colten was also there.

Jeff Nesbitt: And in our apartment we had this beta fish. It was in the kitchen window for the entire time we lived there, and the fish's name was Ed Darter. Also. During that time, our wifi password was Ed Darter. I had no idea how important this person would become to. . I didn't know I was gonna end up spending so much time with him.

Jeff Nesbitt: I didn't know that he'd end up being one of my best friends. I just thought he was fucking cool.

ver have trouble keeping up? [: 00:15:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Absolutely fucking not. He didn't change a thing, and that's exactly what made us like him. He was authentic, he was genuine, and he was fucking cool. Also, he said interesting things that ie. He learned underground, like, uh, you pimping me, Nesbitt. I said, no, ed, I'm not pimping you.

Jeff Nesbitt: If I was pimping you, you'd. Be one of my finest hoes. That is actually a thing. He really did say that. Me and my friends quoted for years. You pimping me Nesbitt. Good times. Good times. Anyway, I graduated from college and I was gonna become a teacher. Moved to Memphis and all that bullshit, blah, blah, blah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Teach for America. Didn't do it. didn't do it. Ended up coming back to the refuge for one final hurrah, one last.

to go work in an underserved [: 00:16:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Long story short, a job opened up with a different organization where I'm working now. I applied and I got the job throughout the interview process,

Jeff Nesbitt: I was in constant contact with Ed because he already worked there and the job was replacing his.

Jeff Nesbitt: So the roles had flipped

Jeff Nesbitt: seven years earlier. Ed was my supervisor. He was showing me the ropes, teaching me a lot, a ton,

Jeff Nesbitt: and now I was his supervisor sort of.

Jeff Nesbitt: he didn't require a whole lot of supervision.

Jeff Nesbitt: most of the supervision that I do for Ed is, is just making sure that his programs get the support they need. He's still my mentor. I still consider him that now.

ew job came with a title and [: 00:17:00

Jeff Nesbitt: At this point, I still felt very new. I still felt really green, and although it was a bit awkward, ed had to kind of train me, not on the specifics of how to do the job, but on the specifics of this organization. I didn't know how they do things, so he was training me.

Jeff Nesbitt: And like the honorable man he is. He didn't give me attitude or try to sabotage me in any way. He saw that we needed to work together and we needed to establish a partnership, and that's what we did. He told me how to watch out for pitfalls. He really, really helped me. I was coming into this position without really much guidance and training and without anybody to tell me how to do it.

as afraid of looking like an [: 00:18:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Ed's still working here. Actually, he retired last year, but he never really stopped coming to work, the work's not gonna do itself, I stopped paying him, but he just never stopped showing up. So I eventually had to start figuring out a way to pay him again. So we got him back on and it's much better.

ause of Ed. He's the one who [: 00:19:00

Jeff Nesbitt: He's the one who really spearheaded the whole project. So , we have Ed to thank for the fact that now this issue is being addressed in Willapa. Bay. If you're unaware of the green crab issue, definitely give that a Google.

Jeff Nesbitt: I can honestly say that Ed is one of my favorite people. He's one of my few trusted confidants. I don't trust a lot of people. , I don't trust a lot of people at all. I don't trust their opinions. I don't think that people are thoughtful enough. I don't trust people's judgments, but I do trust Ed.

Jeff Nesbitt: He's earned that. I trust his advice. I trust his guidance, and I just think he's a great guy. He's also a really good dad. I admire him for that. I look up to him a lot for guidance on how to be a good parent, cuz I think he did a really good job. His kids turned out great and I want my kids to turn out great.

Jeff Nesbitt: If he can do it, I can do it. I think that we're wired in a similar way.

was my second guest episode. [: 00:20:00

Jeff Nesbitt: But first, a quick message from our sponsor.

Jeff Nesbitt: Without further ado, please enjoy this podcast with the great and powerful, the wise and cunning, a true master of the swamp. Edmund Darter.

[: 00:21:00

Ed Darcher: [: 00:00:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Also, I have [00:01:00] waters over there and over there.

Jeff Nesbitt: I never, lots of liquor. I never missed beer. Plenty of stuff to drink. If you, uh, if you are so inclined now, let me grab a beer as well. Would you hand me one of those? My mouth is dry. Thank you.

Ed Darcher: Well, before we, I was gonna say, here's to us Jeff. Yeah. Cheers. Cheers. Been a been a hell of a ride. Yeah. And it ain't

Jeff Nesbitt: over.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's right. Thank you for

Ed Darcher: coming. Thanks for inviting me.

Jeff Nesbitt: You were the first person I invited of, of all like, of all

Ed Darcher: people. I remember Alana just left.

She

Jeff Nesbitt: was the first person to say yes.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Well, I said yes. I just didn't say when.

Jeff Nesbitt: Indefinitely. Yeah. how is Alana doing? Good.

Ed Darcher: Yeah, real good. You get a good visit.

er for her too. Yeah, I bet. [: 00:02:00

Ed Darcher: That'd be

Jeff Nesbitt: cool. Oh yeah. Is that what you're

Ed Darcher: hoping for? Yeah, no, I'm torn because just the situation there though, the situation is not perfect in Germany either. I don't know if you've been, you know, with they're, they're having their own nationalistic shit. I

Jeff Nesbitt: actually don't know what's going on in Germany and I don't have any idea how to find out.

Jeff Nesbitt: Cause I don't trust the news.

the same kind of, of uh, uh, [: 00:03:00

Jeff Nesbitt: It's hard to classify like where, what, what to call

Ed Darcher: it?

Ed Darcher: Uh, sickness, I don't know. Uh, mass hysteria. Uh, it's, I don't, even if hysteria would be the word I'd use delusion.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Well it's not delusion cuz it doesn't come outta nowhere. They were taught those things. That qan on thing was like deliberate. Somebody told them all that shit.

Ed Darcher: Well, they're, anyway, they're plugged in.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. So it's become a na it is become a, a, a worldwide phenomenon now and anyway. But she, there's a lot of advantages of staying there too. We'll see. They are, we'll

Jeff Nesbitt: see. Interesting. I gotta close the curtains. I forgot. Yeah,

Ed Darcher: It's kind of windy.

t. . Um, why don't you start,[: 00:04:00

Jeff Nesbitt: go ahead whenever you're ready. The Ramble by the River fight song, please.

Ed Darcher: . Uh, Fight, fight, fight for what's right with all your might into the night.. Oh, you don't know the song? Wait, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll, uh, uh, fall back on my age.

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, um, have you, have you listened to any of my episodes, ed?

Ed Darcher: Not recently.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's what I thought. That's what I thought. Because there is no fight song.

Jeff Nesbitt: Um, why is I made the whole thing up. I made the whole thing up, but I'm working on one. You wanna hear what I got?

Ed Darcher: Sure.

Ed Darcher: I have,

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, I had AI write it for me, so it was, it was better than that.

Ed Darcher: Arthur Irving,

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, Artificial intelligence. Oh, oh, oh. Uh, I've been kind of obsessed with that lately. cuz I'm amazed.

mind blown. You might not. I [: 00:05:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Damn, that rain is loud.

Jeff Nesbitt: There we go. You hear it drop out. So that's the thing is like I could, the mics, I like to have 'em down low enough to where the rain doesn't get caught like that. But then you have to get like this close to be able to, it's not distracting. Well it, the rain, it messes up the final recording. Ah, it, it fucks with my compression cuz then when I compress the, the audio file, it tries to bring up the sound of the rain.

Jeff Nesbitt: Are

Ed Darcher: we recording now? Yeah. Oh, alright.

Jeff Nesbitt: Usually my, my way I do it. The recorder starts when they get here. And um, and then, Uh, we just start talking. It's, it's really like, we're not on tonight's show. I'm not Jimmy Fallon, although I may be handsome and charming.

d you can be the same thing. [: 00:06:00

Jeff Nesbitt: People who don't know how to entertain. So the bar is low and , I just started trying to make this the way I wanted it to be. Like I don't, I don't worry too much about fitting it into a certain way. It doesn't matter cuz it's on the internet and it's available for free. Who gives a shit?

Jeff Nesbitt: Like some of the episodes are way different than others. Uh, I just, I just have fun with it. I like let it go where it, where it may, but yeah, don't think of it as people are listening right now cuz they're not I know you are at it. Yeah. Right now it's just me and you talking,

Ed Darcher: which we do

Jeff Nesbitt: frequent. Exactly.

le are listening right away. [: 00:07:00

Ed Darcher: Hey, what do we, what do we do that we got headphones on and, and uh, are our interacting with each other? The only thing that's lacking is exactly

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Which is

Jeff Nesbitt: an airboat. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we don't even have to use hand signals. We can actually hear each other in here. It's, yep. Pretty nice. Yep. I'm surprised you guys don't try to use those earmuffs with the little noise canceling thing that where you can talk. Do you remember those? Uh,

Ed Darcher: like I never, I remember 'em never.

Ed Darcher: , they

Jeff Nesbitt: had a few pairs at the refuge for a while. Yeah, we used them a couple times. They were really cool. Now, I guess it's not that amazing. Noise cancellation is pretty normal technology, but back then it was brand new and I was pretty excited about that, all that. Alright, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you this thing before, uh, I forget

Jeff Nesbitt: your fight song.

this is called chat, g p t. [: 00:08:00

Jeff Nesbitt: So much like the way Google works, it's just a little text bar, see right here. And you just type in what you want it to do or what you want to ask it or what you want it to make and it'll make anything. So, make make, yeah, create. So it's generally, it does it in words, written language, uh, but that can be like, you can write code, so it can write programs and websites and all kinds of stuff.

ons and make sure the public [: 00:09:00

Jeff Nesbitt: So it takes me a couple hours to write a, a public notice where I'm saying, Hey, notice is hereby given that the blah, blah, blah, intends to blah, blah, blah, and it's in the classified or the government, advertisements in the newspaper. And I didn't feel like doing that. So I go to chat, G P T, I typed in, write me a public notice about blah, blah, blah in accordance to RCW 1710 Revised Code of Washington.

Jeff Nesbitt: So I just, that's all I wrote. And then before my eyes, it made it like this.

Jeff Nesbitt: Write me a poem about a bald man named Ed who drives air boats. Wait, wait, wait. And kills crabs. And this is what, this is what it said. Bald ed with his shiny dome drives airboats down the bayou with a flick of his wrist. He steers with ease through the murky waters with grace.

hese swamps like the back of [: 00:10:00

Jeff Nesbitt: bald ed with his weathered face and his hands callous from years of work is a true master of the swamp. Where's the hook? He may be getting older, but he's still as fierce as ever in his pursuit of the perfect catch. It's not great, but it was written by a computer right in front of our face.

Ed Darcher: Um, that in itself is, uh, remarkable.

Ed Darcher: It

Jeff Nesbitt: it is, this thing is making connections across thou millions, really infinite number of different objects. And like

Ed Darcher: re I got,

Jeff Nesbitt: I got it. It's able to draw conclusions, make judgements, have opinions, like rethink opinions and, and restate them.

Jeff Nesbitt: It, [: 00:11:00

Ed Darcher: It's ta it's taken over. What's the need for creativity?

Jeff Nesbitt: That's the thing. The creativity, the need for creativity will change just by nature. It will change because no longer will it be required for you to do the actual work.

Jeff Nesbitt: The creativity itself will be the only task. If, if a computer can actually do the drawing and do the painting and do the writing, the creative task becomes coming up with the idea. And that's always been the hard part anyway. But, oh, I don't know about that. I don't, it's, well, it's, at least, it's a, it's a required prerequisite because you can't, can't do shit without an idea.

Jeff Nesbitt: Even if you have skills.

Ed Darcher: What happens if it's a bad idea?

Jeff Nesbitt: A lot of them. . This one isn't you. Well,

cher: it might be actually . [: 00:12:00

Jeff Nesbitt: you have to be descriptive. I had no choice. ,

Ed Darcher: I, I'm just uh, um, puzzling over your, uh, choice of baldness. That's

Jeff Nesbitt: all I had to make sure that the computer knew who I was talking about.

Jeff Nesbitt: I never said anything about you. Whatever it said, uh, my stocks with determination, it did capture your fierceness. That it got callous hands. Years of hard work. You got some gnarled hands.

Ed Darcher: Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: That I do. A true master of the swamp. I like

Ed Darcher: that one. Self-created ones .

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. So you could essentially have AI do every step of a artistic process now.

about what it's like to be a [: 00:13:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Cuz how does it know what a millennial is? First of all, that's not that hard. But how does it know what a millennial knows? I don't know. And so I did that and it said track one, it's called So cringe, the anthem Trap Two snap bracelets and side bangs, track three low-rise jeans and butterfly clips. Track four T-Mobile sidekicks and aol.

Jeff Nesbitt: Instant Messenger, track five, Tamagotchis and tl, MySpace angst and emo music. The rise and fall of Vine, Yolo and fomo. All this shit rings familiar to me. I bet it doesn't to you. I read it to Seth and Caden in the office today. They didn't know what any of that shit was.

Jeff Nesbitt: It is speaking to millennials only. Do you know what any of that shit is? Oh yeah. Oh, you do. You were an adult then, I guess, but, uh,

w, does it, you know, is it, [: 00:14:00

Jeff Nesbitt: those things were my teen experience. Like those, all of them, the everything down to flip phones and MySpace, top eights, it's, it really kind of blew me away how good it is.

Jeff Nesbitt: And then I said, Hey, write lyrics for those songs also. And it did that. It's just like, yeah, we can sing one together if you

Ed Darcher: want. No, my voice is terrible. I doubt that, ed. I don't wanna sing.

Jeff Nesbitt: Come on, sing with me. No You know what to saying. Okay. Don't have to. Um, I'll do the singing. You can just wrap a couple verses

Ed Darcher: and we'll be good.

Ed Darcher: [: 00:15:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I don't know anything about mining ,

Ed Darcher: that's why. Okay.

about mining. I was kidding. [: 00:18:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Well, you know, you wouldn't get it ,

Ed Darcher: you're, because I'm not AIC . I didn't Oh. Try a whole different kind of try me. Oh. That kind of mining. But how's that going these days? Uh, well,

Jeff Nesbitt: not great. not great. It's up today. Bitcoin, it's up to back to 17,000, which is, oh God. That's hard to say cuz. 17,000 is like good for right now, but that's still just like, it ain't 65.

Jeff Nesbitt: No, that's pennies. So you were right all along.

Jeff Nesbitt: Should have listened to you from a beginning. Um, not completely. Your advice was just to not. Look into it, like ignore it. Too risky. I don't, I don't think I should have followed that advice, but when you were like, what are you doing, 65,000, how much did you buy it for? Sell that shit. And I was just like, no, ed, you don't understand.

p going up forever probably. [: 00:19:00

Ed Darcher: it's a learning experience collapse that you didn't ha at least you didn't hang on. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Whatever. It's, it is what it is.

Jeff Nesbitt: It's the crypto landscape is gonna change dramatically in the next, just in the next year probably. There's regulation coming down. A lot of the crypto, I don't even wanna call 'em companies because they're not companies, but they're dead. A lot of 'em are dead already. The FTX thing, and Luna in the spring, Terra Luna collapse and basically it's been a house of cards.

ed on hype, just like crypto.[: 00:20:00

Jeff Nesbitt: So the, the next wave of crypto successes will. Coins and things that actually provide a, a value of some kind. And we knew that to begin with, but it was just exciting. It was too, it was too sparkly to, to avoid. And people were making money so fast. It was just, you know, it was yours. Yeah. Got us. Got us. A lot of us.

Jeff Nesbitt: But yeah, live and learn.

Jeff Nesbitt: Live and learn, hopefully. Yeah, I can, I can hope . All right. Well, I'm talking too much. Um, tell us a little bit about mining, not Bitcoin mining. I won't mention crypto again in this whole podcast, but what kind of mining did you do? Hard rock.

ey, uh, uh, mining is, it's, [: 00:21:00

Ed Darcher: And, you know, if any mining you see on the news is mostly some bad news about coal mining, strip mining and, and yeah, I, uh, blood diamond

Jeff Nesbitt: mining blood diamond. You

Ed Darcher: ever mind any blood diamonds? Only a couple times. Nice. Uh, ? No. I was a hard rock underground and I think on my whole experience I might have met, worked with two guys that had any coal mining experience.

Ed Darcher: I, without denigrating coal mining. The, the work I, we did. And it, it was like, to me, the difference between a a, a surgeon and a butcher. Uh, so it

clean coal. Yeah. Trump was [: 00:22:00

Ed Darcher: it's higher grade coal.

Jeff Nesbitt: I'm just kidding. I don't think that's a real thing. I mean it is, well it's cleaner.

Ed Darcher: I think facetious, but, uh, uh, oh shit. I mind what gold, silver, copper uranium lived in them, uh, drove tunnels. Are

Jeff Nesbitt: those all like similar process for all those different types of, um, comp, well not compounds. What am I, minerals or is it, um, or is it something different each.

dry, uh, chores, uh, it's a, [: 00:23:00

Ed Darcher: And it, uh, the, the, um, underground became pretty much, uh, not, not non-existent, but, but not as necessary. And why is that? Partly cuz of environmental rules got a lot stricter. Uh, the, or the, uh, uh, Or on a lot of it became, they [00:24:00] started open pit mining on a big scale, extraction became much easier and, and more sophisticated.

Ed Darcher: So they could, they could uh, uh, underground mining's very expensive and, and, and, and very tough regulatory and, and, uh, harder, harder to find the skillsets too. Uh, because you

Jeff Nesbitt: got a tunnel or is it like underground as opposed to open pit? Yeah. And it's just, cuz I imagine, cuz you don't have to dig well open

Ed Darcher: pit.

Ed Darcher: I mean, you, you've seen, you know, you're using, uh, big shovels and, and trucks and, and you're, you know, you've, you're just creating a circular, a bigger, bigger hole. Yeah. That's, that's kind of simplification,

Jeff Nesbitt: but it's comprehensive, right? Yeah. You're taking everything out. You're

Ed Darcher: not just looking for means.

s, ain't less than a quarter [: 00:25:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Hmm. Just like the, that lower grade. Um, oil that they started the, the shale oil or what is it? What's the stuff that they, when I was in Highschool, they couldn't really make a lot of money off of that. Uh, I forget what it's called now, but, well, it's oil, shale oil shell, yeah. I think that is it. Yeah. But it's

Ed Darcher: like, I almost took a job on

Jeff Nesbitt: that.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. And now they can get money out of it because they have better techniques. Well,

Ed Darcher: they're still trying to tweak it. It, it's, uh, uh, still very expensive and, and, uh, um, uh, I think the cost more, it's, I'm not sure how profitable. Yeah.

petroleum is on its way out? [: 00:26:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Or do you think that that is kind of just a bunch of bullshit

Jeff Nesbitt: environmentally speaking, not policy wise? Is peak oil true?

Ed Darcher: Uh, I think that it's gone. I think it's probably peaking. That would be my,

Jeff Nesbitt: that's what they've thought for a long time though. It's, I, I believed that fully when I learned about peak oil when I was probably 16. I was like, that makes sense. There's a finite amount on the planet.

Jeff Nesbitt: We've already reached the halfway point, so now it's just going down, down, down. Uh, but it seems like we really don't know what the amount is, so we don't know where we are on that. We could have reached it. We might not have, I mean,

Jeff Nesbitt: Maybe the whole center of the planet's filled with the stuff. Who knows? Who knows? I never been

use, uh, countries are gonna [: 00:27:00

Ed Darcher: Might not, might be too much to bear politically.

Jeff Nesbitt: Well, it seems to me that we don't have an alternative in place yet. So what, what would we even do?

Ed Darcher: Use oil until it's gradually, uh, replaces. I, shit, I don't have an answer for that.

Jeff Nesbitt: California outlawed internal combustion engines. 30 years from now, you won't be able to get one in California, right? Did you hear about that? I heard about it.

nia made history in August of: 2022

Jeff Nesbitt: So what are they gonna do instead? ,

Ed Darcher: they, I guess we'll find out.

Ed Darcher: Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Um, it's you. They can't just do a whole change like that without acknowledging that you need to get energy from somewhere. You gotta do something to get that energy. Wind isn't inconsistent. Solar doesn't work at night. Battery technology is not good enough to make those two technologies feasible on a large scale.

Jeff Nesbitt: What the fuck else is there? Clean coal? I don't know. Yeah, coal's.

Ed Darcher: A worse even.

Jeff Nesbitt: So even your Tesla's gonna be causing a carbon footprint because you gotta get that energy from somewhere. Well, it's like farmed fish. Electric cars are the farmed fish of transportation.

s are often touted as a more [: 00:29:00

Malcom: One issue is that the production of electric cars requires a significant amount of energy, which can come from fossil fuels. This means that even though electric cars do not burn gasoline, they can still contribute to greenhouse gas emissions through their production. Additionally, the electricity that powers electric cars may be generated from fossil fuels, which can also contribute to emissions.

is more complex than it may [: 00:30:00

Ed Darcher: I think there's, even though I gonna be, there's gonna need to be a a, a, people aren't gonna give up their cars.

Ed Darcher: You might, public transportation is, is, uh, uh, gonna have to become acceptable or people are gonna have to, um, embrace it, which yeah. Is not gonna happen in any kind of, um, mass movement. Not in places like this. No, not in a rural area for sure.

Jeff Nesbitt: I would feel very vulnerable without a vehicle in this area.

my outfit. Like it's my, oh [: 00:31:00

Ed Darcher: Not me. . You can see what I drive anyway, so . Yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: but that's, I mean, it's protected you Well, yeah. You can see it on, on the outside of it. Did I tell you I got, I got rear ended last week. No, right in the middle of South Bend. Your black

Ed Darcher: truck? Yeah. By,

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, Katie. Something. She was from Marysville. If you're in Marysville, Katie, you never did send me that insurance info.

Jeff Nesbitt: You stopped. She didn't? Yes. I was stopped to wait for the person to turn in front of me and she decided she didn't wanna stop and she rammed me. Was it hard? Yeah, she's probably going 30. What was she driving? Hyundai Elantra just fucking smashed it. I got a hitch on that thing,

Ed Darcher: uh, up there. I was,

Jeff Nesbitt: it looked like Superman punched that car in the face,

Ed Darcher: right?

Yeah. Did it get the ba uh, [: 00:32:00

Jeff Nesbitt: somehow? No, I, it, well, she hit me. I think she tried to swerve at the last second and so the, the headlight went just inside of her headlight. I mean, the, the hitch went just inside of her headlights. So it just, but it really did, it buckled the entire hood.

Jeff Nesbitt: Smashed the entire front of the car. She hit hard. And would it do your truck, it tucked the bumper down a little bit. It

Ed Darcher: like, oh shoot, man. Crowbar it. Uh, I'll take

Jeff Nesbitt: that out. Yeah, I'll hook a, hook a chain up to a, like we did on the work truck. Yeah. It's not gonna be a problem. . And, uh, yeah. Was she upset? Oh my god.

Jeff Nesbitt: Hyster. It was, it was not a fun experience. Of course. It was your fault. No, no, no. She, it was very, I mean, there was, I was stopped. There's no scenario where that's not her fault. Even if you're stopped in the road, it's still not your fault. If somebody hits you, you're not allowed to run your car into people.

actually feel like that as a [: 00:33:00

Jeff Nesbitt: That's

Ed Darcher: against the rules. Yeah. But we're in a no fault, uh, era, aren't we? I'm not, uh, me neither fault exists. Were you, was that technically on the

Jeff Nesbitt: job? No. No, it wasn't. All right. No, it was. I was in my own truck. I just happened to be right by the job. But no, I was on this job actually. I was listening to my podcast, screening my podcast, but no, I wasn't working.

Ed Darcher: Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Back to mining. Yeah, back to mining. So do you guys really have canaries down there?

Ed Darcher: Yeah, we, uh, call 'em new hires, .

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, I imagine that comes from a real thing, but it was there actually a risk of like asphyxiation or gas pockets or anything like that? Down there was the air issue. Oh,

er: see, that's, that's, uh, [: 00:34:00

Ed Darcher: Uh, although I did have their, we were in a, as we're at the gooseberry and we sh sh there was a round shot in a stove. I'm trying to think, uh, why we were, they were just reopening it up for the second or third or fourth time or whatever, and it didn't have time to ventilate. Ooh. And me and Bask guy named Juan and Hank Lagar crawled in from the other side and pretty quickly had to get the heck out of

Jeff Nesbitt: there.

Jeff Nesbitt: Could you smell something or was it

d we, we were, we got pretty [: 00:35:00

Jeff Nesbitt: That's where it was. So you couldn't even tell until you started feeling like, oh,

Ed Darcher: I'm gonna pass out.

Ed Darcher: And we just immediately got, we could got headaches and, and just did not feel good. Yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: that sounds awful. So you did quite a bit of blasting, right? Every day. That sounds like that would be sometimes pretty fun. Did you enjoy it

Ed Darcher: a lot of times? Oh hell yeah. That sounds like kind of a cool job. It, uh, uh, uh, You know, we, uh, there was, like I said, we,

ing, and it required certain [: 00:36:00

Ed Darcher: Mm-hmm. , you know what I mean? There was a way, uh, of drilling it where the, uh, uh, the holes had to be in a pattern where the rock would break, you know, consistently in the same way. And

Jeff Nesbitt: so you're basically cutting big chunks of rock by just placing blasting caps in certain places. Yeah.

Ed Darcher: What you do is you, you blast to a cavity.

Ed Darcher: Mm-hmm. . So the first, the, the, the first detonations are, are around either a pre-drilled hole or depending on what kind of ground you might even use what they call wedge cut. I don't want to get too technical. No,

Jeff Nesbitt: get technical, but let's just like seriously get technical. That's, that's the best part about podcasts is you, there's no time limit.

Jeff Nesbitt: You can get as technical in

and the center holes, which [: 00:37:00

Ed Darcher: And then that was your burn. And they would go off. When you loaded them, they would go off in succession and that would collapse all that. And that would that, and then see what, what the, what the, uh, explosives does is they, it creates a gas that has to expand, so it expands towards and as the whole, as, as the, the burn.

Ed Darcher: Then it makes the hole bigger. And then you have what, maybe a box around it. The holes drilled a little bit further apart, and they would go off next. And then you'd have maybe a diamond and then relievers and then arch holes. And, and your last ones that generally went off were your lifters. That was your bottom ones.

Ed Darcher: Uhhuh. . And then that would also throw the muck pile back.

Jeff Nesbitt: And then you'd, then you'd do another, you'd start over and

Ed Darcher: move even deeper [: 00:38:00

Ed Darcher: You, you would either have, there's, mines are generally either rubber. Or rail where the system of transportation moving the muck and other equipment is either on rubber, rubber tire, or it's on rail. Mm-hmm. . So if it's on rail, you'd have certain machinery though, basically overshot or, uh, what they call, or if it was rubber tire, you'd use a mucker, which in underground it's like a front end loader, but they're ver they're low and you sit sideways.

bitt: Everything's built for [: 00:39:00

Ed Darcher: down there. Yeah. And, and, uh, uh, and then you'd, you'd just mucking like, hell, man. . Did you

Jeff Nesbitt: guys have like full trucks underground? Did I, was that you who told me that they had to like, take them apart and bring 'em down the elevator? Their pieces? Yeah. I've seen and then put 'em all back together down there.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's, that happened.

Ed Darcher: That's crazy. Us There was one that was stuck for three days in this place, or a day. Yeah. Wow.

Jeff Nesbitt: That must have been like a whole different world down there. Oh yeah. Yeah. Did your, did your sense of time get weird when you're down there? Well,

Ed Darcher: a lot of times.

dly couldn't work graveyards [: 00:40:00

Jeff Nesbitt: How do you even know if it's day or night?

Jeff Nesbitt: You

Ed Darcher: gotta watch it, guess? Well, a lot you, you don't own. Uh, I know in, in, uh, like this time of year, you know, when we were working, let's say, let's say you're working at 10,000 foot up in, let's say this mine up in big line up in Colorado. And, uh, uh, you, you, you go to, you, you get up at five, six in the morning, you're on day shift, and you get to the mine just as it's getting to be light.

Ed Darcher: You have to get there early because you gotta get your, you gotta go in your dry room change, get your digger, you gotta go then to the, the, the board and, and everybody has a brass that they take down. What's that? It's, uh, it has a, a number identical to you when you turn it in at the, pick it up at the beginning of each shift and then turn it in at the end so they know who's there.

ebody. , uh, I don't know. . [: 00:41:00

Ed Darcher: Oh, oh, where? Okay. Is that a racial slur? Why would it be a racial slur? I don't know. I'm just being funny. . Uh, a a jpo means you're working contract. In other words, you're paid for what you do. A jpo Mine also moves, it's referring to the fact that they move around. They're, they go where the money is. Okay.

Ed Darcher: Like a, like a tramp. Oh, so it is a racial slur? No. Okay. Why would, there's nothing to do with Gypsy, gypsy. Gypsy. No. It has nothing to do with that. Okay. Absolutely nothing.

Jeff Nesbitt: All right. All right.

an article published in The [: 00:42:00

Malcom: The term "gyppo" was commonly prepended to form nicknames among loggers, for example: "Gyppo Jake", or “Gyppo Jamal”. The word was introduced by the Industrial Workers of the World (also known as the I.W.W.) to disparage strikebreakers and other loggers who thwarted their organizing efforts. The IWW currently uses the term to refer to "Any piece-work system; a job where the worker is paid by the volume they produce, rather than by their time.” Mittelman quotes an editorial from the Industrial Worker on the subject:

gyps' his fellow workers and [: 00:43:00

Malcom: The term lost most of its derisive connotation after the decline of the IWW's influence in the lumber industry. Eventually people just forgot that it started as a negative reference to a hard-working ethnic group and their chosen method of survival.

Jeff Nesbitt: Well, I was just being, I was just joking anyway, but then you started saying the things about the traveling, and that's very gypsy like,

Jeff Nesbitt: So that's if, uh,

Ed Darcher: I don't, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the derivation is, origins. Anyway, to answer, to go back to your question about time, you're always aware of time, cuz time's money. Now if your days pay, maybe sometimes you're waiting for the shift to get over. So, and concept at time, but it being underground, you know, like I was getting on earlier, you'd sometimes you'd come up like on day shift and by the time you got out, let's say you were working eight to four, by the time you got out of the drive, taking a shower and everything, it'd be dark.

cher: You shower in the mine [: 00:44:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Oh wow. So they build like it's a city down there basically? Well,

Ed Darcher: you could, the the showers are above ground. Oh, okay. You just haven't been outside. Yeah. You know, your routine. Let this big mo, you'd go in, go to the window, find out what you were doing and you know, if, you know, usually you had a fair idea, but what was up, what the situation was, what the previous crew had reported and what you, what you were walking into mm-hmm.

ably what you had on the day [: 00:45:00

Ed Darcher: You have to beat 'em to get 'em on . I'm not shit. Oh, I believe it. And uh, and then the reverse is when you get, you come up, you and, and you know, and, and, uh, you put, you put 'em on the dry, you know, they have heat fans, which circulated it up on, you know, so it's it heat, so it's, you know, make sure it's dry.

Ed Darcher: Mm-hmm. dries out and you shower and go wherever.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. That must be a weird life. Sounds cool though. I wouldn't be,

Ed Darcher: I wouldn't done it. I, I really, obviously I embrace it was when I started out, I was, uh, I, I took to it immediately and I, and I formed a very strong identity, which took me years after it, my mind and career was done to actually, uh, uh, uh, uh, accept and, uh, that it was done.

t you weren't mining. Oh, I, [: 00:46:00

Jeff Nesbitt: feel like it, it you are still that guy. You just don't get to do the thing anymore. Oh, no,

Ed Darcher: no. I, I still, I have many, uh, nights of. on your ground dreams. Really? Oh yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: that makes a lot of sense. Because it's, it was so formative.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's how I feel about the wildlife refuge. It's like, that was my, my early twenties and like, that's where I cut my teeth professionally. Uh, and that's like set up who I am as a

Ed Darcher: professional. There, there are similarities because I, you know, I was in a, I don't know if it was an adrenaline, uh, junkie, but close to it.

people a week [: 00:47:00

Ed Darcher: Helen, two years I worked there longer than I worked at any other, mine consist in any one stretch and, uh, uh, it, by that time I was, you know, running, I had a crew my own for part of the time.

Jeff Nesbitt: Is there a high attrition rate? Do people

Ed Darcher: quit? Yeah. Yeah. Some people just, uh, just cannot, cannot hack it in those, those, especially this, they were hiring, you know, they, they just, if, if you look good.

as, uh, we were mining under [: 00:48:00

Ed Darcher: Wow. So there's, it was the longest, fricking one of the longest at that time, that's large building project. They drove a tunnel from two ends from our end and another end, just, just before I started there. They completed it and, uh, they were only like 16 inches apart on the other side of

Jeff Nesbitt: a mountain.

Ed Darcher: Oh, right.

Ed Darcher: Two under the Rockies. Wow.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. And they met up perfect, huh? Yeah. Yeah. 16 inches close to close to Perfect. That must have been a great moment for whoever engineered that tunnel

Ed Darcher: or the Oh, yeah, yeah. On both sides. Like

agine being like, One tunnel [: 00:49:00

Ed Darcher: And like the bridge that, that there, there's places where they didn't Yeah, yeah. That would be bad. No, that was, uh, uh, the Henderson mind tunnel. Wow.

Jeff Nesbitt: Okay. I have a question. So being that you have experience cutting rock, you will have some insight on this. We don't know how the pyramids were built, right?

Jeff Nesbitt: We don't know how they, not just the Egyptian pyramids, but the pyramids all over the world. We don't know how they got those perfect cuts, all these stones that fit together perfectly. how do you think they did that

Ed Darcher: Well? Must have been a certain kind. It must have been sandstone or a kind of, A lot of it was

Jeff Nesbitt: marble and limestone.

granite or, or, um, calcite [: 00:50:00

Jeff Nesbitt: breaks in a jagged form.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's

Ed Darcher: straight Christmas. But, uh, they must, uh, wedge we, you know, just kind of chisel cut it or, uh, they're so perfect. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: It's crazy. No, I, it, I would love to go visit that. Have you ever been to any of the pyramids? No. I bet you'd. , that sounds

Ed Darcher: like, oh, the construction. They're very impressive to me.

Ed Darcher: It's, it, it, it's, it's almost belies. Any, uh, or, or, or, uh, shadows, overshadows any, uh, construction that's going on today? Yeah. Just because of the sheer, uh, you know, the, the, the manpower that it took to accomplish it. Holy

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I mean, a lot of those stones were 10 to 20 tons Oh, yeah. Of peace. And there's millions of them.

. And then you can still see [: 00:51:00

Malcom: No. The Great Pyramid of Giza is one of the oldest structures on earth specifically because of the chosen location and building materials. It is built on a thick Limestone plateau, which could support its massive weight, and prevented the pyramid from collapsing over time like most of the other pyramids, which were built on sand. The majority of the stones used to construct the Great Pyramid at Giza were cut right out of this limestone and you can still see the remnants of these cuts today. However, the brownish-yellow color of the local limestone was not desireable at the time. They thought it looked like quote, "some dusty old bullshit", and decided only to use it for the structural core of the pyramid. The inner chambers were faced in a beautiful reddish-pink granite from Aswan, over 500 miles away, and the entire outside of the pyramid was covered in bright white Tura-Limestone, highly valued for [00:52:00] its quality and luxurious shine. That fancy limestone, which was brought in from the opposite side of the Nile River in chunks ranging in weight from 2 to 3 tons, was stolen over the years, as was the top of the pyramid, which was rumored to have been made of solid gold.

Jeff Nesbitt: But yeah, it was, qued like

Jeff Nesbitt: 800

New Jeff: miles away

New Jeff: or something like that. Something crazy. Oh, I, yeah. And they floated those down the Nile, or, or, oh, look at the

New Jeff: old temples. Who knows, like, uh, Inca Temples. Yeah, same thing. Same. Like you were saying all, you know, pyramids, not only in Egypt, and Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: They're finding 'em in the Amazon now.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. With lidar. They have found several pyramids. Yeah. Yeah. The precision of those cuts though, and the way that the, all those, a lot of those stones are irregular. It's not, it's not like they. found a way to cut these stones and make a bunch of interlocking pieces like Henry Ford or something. They're unique.

ect little spot that is just [: 00:53:00

Ed Darcher: would've taken. Well, even the Roman architecture, pretty impressive. And, and the, and the, uh, aqueducts and their constructions, yeah. Is just, uh dumbfounding.

Ed Darcher: Almost

Jeff Nesbitt: just simple stuff too. Like the columns. That's

Ed Darcher: the, the Roman arch. The Roman Arch. Yeah. And, you know, it's just, and, and how the, uh, how they were constructed in isolated, you know, conquered places where, you know, the, just Wow. The Coliseum.

Jeff Nesbitt: Like they filled that bitch up with water and brought ships into it and had war games.

Jeff Nesbitt: Didn't even know Yeah. Filled the coliseum with water and had ships in there. And they would have the ships pretend to fight each other. while people watched. That's, yeah. . That'd be hard to do now. . Yeah. Mostly cuz no one would wanna watch that shit. Yeah.

just start wars, huh? Yeah. [: 00:54:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Gotta entertain ourselves Somehow we're in the perpetual war that they, George Orwell wrote about.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yep. Oceana versus. . You ever read that book? No. I'm sure you have. No. Nope. That surprises me. if you did read it, you you'd be like, oh, I already know this book, . Yeah. Just talking to you. I like, you're a well aware of all the themes, , like, you would not be surprised by anything. Well,

Ed Darcher: you're pretty well read.

Jeff Nesbitt: So I used to be, I listen to books now and I don't remember them as well. sometimes, I don't even remember if I read a book or not, but like I'll see a book and be like, I feel like I've read that. Have I read that? And I don't know.

Ed Darcher: That's cuz of way knowledge is transferred now. Your the, uh, books are becoming

ying is, you know, with the, [: 00:55:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, it does. It sucks. But that's what makes you remember it. I

Ed Darcher: know, that's what I was trying to say.

Ed Darcher: Thank you. Yeah, yeah,

Jeff Nesbitt: yeah. You're right. The, the integration, like you're having to chew over the knowledge.

Ed Darcher: I'm gonna intersperse with mining stories. Yeah. First mine I ever worked in, uh, the landmark team. Trail Creek out outside Idaho Springs. I was working in a construction site in Denver. It was shutting down cause of the economy was going south.

hich was up in the foothills [: 00:56:00

Ed Darcher: Yeah. So I showed up there two weeks later and that was the beginning of my mind and career. Uh, little did you know, little did I know right. And settling in Ido Springs, which of course how I, my wife. But, uh, present wife, wife number two there. Anyway, the good one, the, yeah. . Uh, but working underground in this, mine was already a hundred years old and it was, and, and the work, I mean the hill, the, the mountain, the hills and, and the terrain all around there.

where there was a, some, you [: 00:57:00

Ed Darcher: What were they

Jeff Nesbitt: doing Looking for or following? Oh, they, uh, just a random spot. They try.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Well, it was there before they, they cut the road.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, oh, they cut the road through it. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.

Ed Darcher: But, uh, I can remember, you know, when you're in a ground first you're like, holy shit. You know? Especially in a mine that's just old, old, old.

Ed Darcher: Oh, I bet. Because there's just, there were rooms cut out for horses that li that's how they used to pull the or cars. Wow. And that, that this my, like I said this, mine was old and they never saw the light. They were down there 24 hours a day. But, uh, there was a, I remember one time, uh, there was a fella who had a claim up the road and he came in the borrow some dynamite.

d the dog went ahead of him. [: 00:58:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I thought the dog was gonna blow up in the story. That's where I thought story going. No, no, no. That's better. Yeah, dogs are scary if you don't know 'em. I have a German Shepherd that lives next door that, uh, it's a rescue. Our neighbor just got, she's an old older lady, and, uh, he's scary, even though he's a super nice dog.

Jeff Nesbitt: He's a three-year-old German Shepherd and, uh, came from the Humane Society, I think. I don't know the dog well enough to be able to fully trust him. Um, and because of that reservation, that feeling makes me feel like, oh, he's gonna pick up on that feeling that I don't fully trust him. And he's gonna think like, what's with this dude?

that was like, that thought [: 00:59:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Up to a point. So oversimplification. But, um, there's definitely something to be in the alpha in the situation when there's a dog around.

Ed Darcher: You don't know how that dog was treated before either or Yeah, exactly. Or what its breeding was or, yeah. Do you ever run over a dog with your truck? I,

Ed Darcher: I'm gonna, uh, I'll, I'll answer that. Yes. It sucks. I, I, I might go into that further when the mic's off.

Jeff Nesbitt: You don't have to, I don't even want to hear the story. It's too sad.

Ed Darcher: No, no. You

Jeff Nesbitt: don't want to hear it. Oh, man. Have I ever told you about when I saw two puppies get ran over at the same time? . Oh, the audience will love to hear about this two puppies.

[: 01:00:00

Jeff Nesbitt: But I can see on both sides, them and the traffic on the other side of the line of cars. So from my vantage point, I saw this group of people, it was two young couples, probably their early twenties and, uh, two puppies. These people looked, it looked like two couples decided to go on a little getaway with their new puppies, and they were walking down the sidewalk and just like laughing.

the sidewalk and then outta [: 01:01:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Obviously they couldn't see the traffic that was coming, but I could see that there was a large truck coming right towards them. And they ran around the edge of the car just in time for the front two. To each hit a puppy, one puppy on the left, one puppy on the right, and smoosh those puppies. I was far enough away that I got to see not only the smushing of the puppies, but also the reaction.

Jeff Nesbitt: You didn't smoosh 'em? No, I didn't smoosh 'em. I watched, I was, I was going the opposite direction of the musher. All right, I got it. Yeah. And, um, but I saw the reaction of the people and I was actually kind of pissed at the people because I was like, you just let those two puppies get smooshed and it's your fault.

Jeff Nesbitt: But they, they were very upset about it. The, the girls and the guys were both crying. Oh yeah. Immediately they were like, it,

Ed Darcher: it [: 01:02:00

Jeff Nesbitt: horrible thing. But, um, you know, put your dog on a leash. Even a

Ed Darcher: puppy. Oh yeah. I, I . How about the poor sap that was driving the truck?

Ed Darcher: That's, that's who I

Jeff Nesbitt: felt bad for. Cuz he looked pretty upset too. It was a sad deal. Really. I think the victim of all of this was me, cuz I had to, I mean, I'm still thinking about it. Obviously it sits with me and I just can't get over it. You wanna talk about it? I am. This exactly what I'm doing. All right.

was, I had applied for a job [: 01:03:00

Ed Darcher: They were hiring and, but in the meantime I was having a, you know, good time in this mountain town, you know, working cons, just doing whatever I wanted to do. And, um, on, it was a Friday night and we were at, in this bar called the Spaghetti Ranch. Hmm. Isn't that funny name for us? And I picture

Jeff Nesbitt: like ranch dressing on spaghetti and it sounds like poor people.

was a, uh, uh, one of those, [: 01:04:00

Ed Darcher: He, he, he was, uh, , uh, uh, tough son of a bitch. Yeah. Tough. Yeah. And you remember a pro? He had a girl. I still remember his girlfriend. She was, she looked like Peggy Lipton. You remember? Uh, the Mod Squad probably is way before your time. Anyway, I pull it up. She was, she had a kind of thin blonde hair. Tony, I, Tony left the bar.

Ed Darcher: Peggy Lipton.

Jeff Nesbitt: Lipton, yeah. Her, yeah. Yeah, she's hot. Anyway, that was his girlfriend. Yep.

the bar saying, uh, Tony was [: 01:05:00

Ed Darcher: Uh oh. He had gone back and his brother had had told him that day he had been shooting off his 22. And the, the lady, the, there was a geologist who was living up there and there had been a confrontation. You didn't want 'em. And so Tony went to the guy's door saying, you know, I, I, I don't know what he was saying, but uh, ended up with his brother there.

Ed Darcher: The brother got shot point blank and or Tony got shot point blank. And then the, uh, Other brother got shot running away. Oh man. I guess the wife had brought him the gun and, and just, you know, one thing led to another and

Jeff Nesbitt: he's gotta be a real bitch to shoot somebody in the back.

Ed Darcher: Anyway, I took Tony's place.

Ed Darcher: That's how I got a, so it was serendipitous. His, you know, there was a vacancy on on the crew. He was on I bet. And I filled it.

bitt: Huh. So, you know, and [: 01:06:00

Ed Darcher: didn't, he never frequented in town. He, uh, um, there's no way to sugarcoat this.

Ed Darcher: They were both Mormons and people figured that was, had something to do with it. The,

Jeff Nesbitt: the murdered ones or the murderers.

Ed Darcher: The, the guy who shot the geologist and also the judge

Jeff Nesbitt: that would, honestly, that would make me think he'd be less likely to murder. Mormons are nice people. I

Ed Darcher: know. I'm just saying at the time.

Ed Darcher: And I'm, they don't tip, but they're nice. But anyway, that's, uh, my two brothers though. Wow.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Well, good luck on that one. That was serendipitous the murder and all. So I guess you're glad that it happened, huh? No,

Ed Darcher: no. I would've gotten hired no matter what. It just would've been a different, yeah.

ever watch anybody get like [: 01:07:00

Ed Darcher: I've been real lucky that. That would be awesome. I have, I've, uh, that'd be like war I've, I could recount

Ed Darcher: several stories of, of others in places where I worked that big line. There was the Henderson. Yeah. Uh, but I've been real lucky in that most of the people I, I've never seen anybody get truly fucked up. That's awesome. I mean, I've, and it is, I mean, it's not podcasting, but it's, it's, I could tell you, you know, shit guys have been close to that have died in mining accidents.

Ed Darcher: Mm-hmm. , but not in front of me.

Jeff Nesbitt: I bet that's a nice, uh, a nice relief, cuz I bet a lot of people have shitty memories about that. It it does, it sounds like it, it could be similar to being in war. Like if you're, if you have to watch a friend blow up, it doesn't really probably matter what the context is.

ing for you. You lucked out. [: 01:08:00

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Yeah. No, no.

Jeff Nesbitt: Um, I imagine you pinched your fingers a lot. Does that happen a lot down there? Get a lot of pinch fingers. Hate pinching my fingers. Oh.

Ed Darcher: What happens is, uh, like you get a lot of, uh, smashed fingernails. Yeah. I mean, it seems like they were, it seemed like for a while, once a year I'd have to go to the hospital so they could.

Ed Darcher: get one, you know, relieve, you know, poke a hole into the, into your fingernail to create

Jeff Nesbitt: a geyser. Yeah. Does, did they use like a hot poker

Ed Darcher: for a while? Y I actually, I've done it a couple times with a paper clip. You know, you heat it up and you pass it through. It's tough doing that with your own fingers.

elated, so the guy just went [: 01:09:00

Ed Darcher: Looked like a little scream. But, you know, you get, you get, you know, I've, I've been stitched up a, you know, nothing major, uh, . One time I was again at this Henderson, I was, uh, we were digging out lifters. The, the, when you're drilling a lot of stuff, stuff falls off the face, and the last holes you drill are the bottom ones because you don't want them getting clogged up with shit that falls down.

teal that had been stuck and [: 01:10:00

Ed Darcher: It was just like a bannet. And I, I can remember, uh, uh, just running my knee right into it without seeing it. Oh my God. And, uh, finished up the round.

Jeff Nesbitt: Was it like, did you see it right after, did you feel the pain right away? Or was it just feel hot and wet? Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Where you're like, you don't even know you're

Ed Darcher: hurt.

Ed Darcher: And then you knew dripping something. I knew it was, yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, cuz it was bleeding. I don't know if I tied a sock or I did put a bunch of towels and mm-hmm. . But that was kind of standard. Yeah, I

Jeff Nesbitt: bet, I bet that kind of stuff happened all the time. Yeah.

Ed Darcher: Wow. Uh, you know, if it got, when you're working days pay, maybe you could take time off jpo.

ere was always somebody else [: 01:11:00

Jeff Nesbitt: carried that with you after you left mining. You don't take days off really. No. No.

. Right. Seven: 2007

Jeff Nesbitt: It's been a while. And, um, you, you work like, I like to work. Like that's, I we clicked right away because I liked being on your crew because it's, it's like this guy knows how to fucking work.

Ed Darcher: I like that. I'm glad to hear that. I, you know, I never knew what the perception never really cared much.

Jeff Nesbitt: But, uh, you can't care.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's what made you a good crew leader. There's only, you can't care.

h, exactly. But that's also, [: 01:12:00

Jeff Nesbitt: really, it comes from boredom. I, I get bored so easily.

Jeff Nesbitt: If I'm at a place where there isn't enough to keep me busy and I feel like my time is being wasted, I will end up quitting that job. Like no matter what it is, no matter how much it's paying me, I won't do it for very long. Cause I can't, I will lose, I'll lose interest. Another one. Yes, please. But if I've got something to do that I feel like I'm being valued and my work is actually doing something, I'll do horrible work.

Jeff Nesbitt: Like the pumping the shitters on Long Island. I really didn't mind that.

Ed Darcher: It was awful work.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, it was, but it was hard. And it took up time and it paid, so that's like, that's why I'm here, here to do hard shit for money.

that we were hitting on this [: 01:13:00

Jeff Nesbitt: little bit. The mic,

Ed Darcher: similar to jobs where you were expected to, uh, get as much done as quickly as you can without, um, uh, uh,

Ed Darcher: oh, what, what, what am I trying to say here? Uh, it wasn't the privacy sector unsupervised. Yeah. You, you, you, the, the goal was, was, uh, uh, the most important, you know, you just all day long just going at it. Going at it, going at it.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Uh, it was, it was a lot of, uh, kind of flying by the seat of your pants.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yep. Figuring stuff out as you go.

the job like that, in those [: 01:14:00

Jeff Nesbitt: no, not for me. That changed my life. I mean, it's set the course of my life for the next 20

Ed Darcher: years. I mean, not only. . Oh, yeah. Just not only because of the type of the work, but the, uh, adrenaline rush maybe, is what I'm trying to get at, because Oh, yeah.

Ed Darcher: A lot of times mining wasn't an adrenaline rush.

Jeff Nesbitt: I bet. Explosions and being on ground. Well, just,

Ed Darcher: just to watch the mul, the drilling and, and the, uh, the heightened sense of, uh, uh, the alertness and the awareness. I mean, you didn't wanna, you know, uh, uh, you always had to be, you know, kind

Jeff Nesbitt: of, because it's literally earth shattering, like what

Ed Darcher: you're doing.

Ed Darcher: Well, you know, yeah. There was, you know, fall of ground. Yeah. You had a, you know, just pay attention or you should, yeah.

l to just experience that in [: 01:15:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Like, to see that much earth be moved right in front of your face and to be the one who does it, it's, it's a powerful feeling. I bet.

Ed Darcher: Well, I didn't ever thought about it, about moving a lot of earth. It was like going into ground that had never been seen before. I mean, that's even cooler, you know, it was, nobody's ever been here.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's actually really cool. I've never thought about it. That, that's probably really fun. I like that idea of novelty, because rock's

Ed Darcher: always changing. Yeah. And, and the situation's always changing too. Uh, it, it, it, uh, That, that's what made it kind of challenging,

you're working for money and [: 01:16:00

Ed Darcher: You're just wanting to move as much as you can, as quickly as you can. Yeah. To, uh, make as much money as you can.

Jeff Nesbitt: So you're not stopping to smell the roses. Nope. What about after you left? Like, so I'm really into geology. I like it a lot. I have a hard time not stopping and looking at rocks when I see some rocks.

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, I notice a lot of people are not that way. People don't give a fuck about rocks. Oh, you see me?

Ed Darcher: Yeah. You like rocks? Oh, yeah. All the time. I'm looking even in what we're doing right now, if I see you time

Jeff Nesbitt: out, did that come from your time underground or is that just a natural instinct? You know, I, I can't, chicken or the

Ed Darcher: egg, I guess

en in situa, you know, like. [: 01:17:00

Ed Darcher: go in or around, let's say you're shot and mucked out and you're noticing that there's just something not usual occurring at, at the face. A new sparkle or something? Yeah, yeah. Or in the, or that's being shot there. There's just, uh, it's different there. There's a different structure color. Uh, I, I, I, let's say again at that Henderson mind, sometimes there, there was, um, really, uh, uh, you know, a pyrite, but there was, I was just gonna

Jeff Nesbitt: ask you about pyrite.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's weird.

Ed Darcher: And, and, but there were, we have some at home, uh, that we got from there. When I'm saying we, I'm also, I'm talking about my wife, cuz she worked underground there for a

Jeff Nesbitt: couple years. Could you describe what pie right looks like in a crystal form for the listeners?

Darcher: Well, it, it's, it [: 01:18:00

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Or hex. Uh, it's a badass looking crystal. It's the atomic, the, the, uh, uh, uh, oh God. What's the word? Uh, the fci The comp, the,

Jeff Nesbitt: the, the golden ratio. No, I think it is, well, the fiche

Ed Darcher: sequence, it, it, it's, it's almost cube like. Yeah. and, and, uh, it's pyre can be fairly hard and it looks, you know, fools goal, but when it's in a, you know, when it's inch inches by inches, not just little chunks of it, it can be, you know, really, and the structures, you know, I've seen big chunks of it and it's, it's, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna time timeout.

of, uh, uh, a crystal on it [: 01:19:00

Ed Darcher: It was something pretty high up. Oh God. Yeah. And it was the, the richest copper deposit in the world. And they had, it had started, it was the first underground mine in Indonesian. And, and then they just, they discovered that, that there was vast deposits of gold Ooh. Precious underneath it. So they started underground, but they had no underground miners in Indonesia at all.

their drill with would jump [: 01:20:00

Ed Darcher: Mm-hmm. . So you'd hit that and go like this. Well, when you knew, when you hit that there was gonna be, there were crystals and, and, and because it's like a, uh, a deposit, a geod, a geo under. Yeah. Like that's a good, uh, uh, analogy or whatever. That was probably so fun. And, and well that mine was not that, that was a, that was a shit show, that place a real shit.

to get up to the mine site. [: 01:21:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, cool. Uh, maybe was it scary off

Ed Darcher: this canyon? Uh, I mean off. That just went endless like this. And the mountains above you were at 17, 18,000 foot and waterfalls and it, it was like something outta King Kong. Wow. You know, and like that. It was pretty amazing. How come it didn't last? Uh, it just, the main reason partly for me is cause I had just started a relationship with Janet and I wanted to get, I wanted to get home.

n my life. I might have just [: 01:22:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. A good woman will, uh, kind of kill your, your desire for, and I was

Ed Darcher: still, yeah, I was still pretty immature and I had a lot, I, uh, was, uh, I had a growing up to do.

Jeff Nesbitt: Let's talk about that a little bit.

Jeff Nesbitt: So it sounds like that's about the time when you started doing that. Growing up when Jen entered the scene, I won't dispute that. You guys, your personalities fit together very well.

Jeff Nesbitt: You work well as a unit. Yeah, we do. And um, was. . Like, what, what's your secret? I know that's a cliche question, but do you have a thing that you like tell people that like, this is how we did it. This is the thing.

f you want something to last [: 01:23:00

Ed Darcher: it's, you gotta, you gotta work at it. I, I mean, it's, there's no secret to it. If you, if you, you know, or if you love the one you, if you love the one you're with, wait, that may not be right. I think it is. No, no. The one that you're with at, not at the moment, you don't. The one that you're gonna be with

Jeff Nesbitt: later, the love, the one you're with, part still works.

Jeff Nesbitt: Even if you ignore the first part. . Yeah. I'm

Ed Darcher: thinking of that song. Love the one you're with. I

Jeff Nesbitt: know. Anyway, the first part being like, if you can't be with the one you love, love one you're with, love the one you're with. Period. End of sentence. Full

Ed Darcher: stop. Yeah. Anyway, uh, you, you've, uh, yeah, it, it, it just, you can't be selfish.

I mean, if you know you want [: 01:24:00

Ed Darcher: And I guess there, there's happy relationships there too. It's, you know, whatever, you know, if you tour bound by a similar code, then live up to it. That's, yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's nailed it. I think that nails it. That's, I think that works with every relationship. Like, you have to try to meet people in the middle and if you're already similar, it's a

Ed Darcher: lot easier.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. I mean, if your values don't coincide with the person you're trying to establish a relationship with, I don't know if that's ever gonna work unless you just change who you are, which also won't work. Expect them change who they are. Conversely, which most often is not, won't work either.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Those are two

Ed Darcher: potential path to failure.

% of you that is like [: 01:25:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I, okay, so I'm gonna, I wanna ask you about, um, masculinity and parenting. You raised two boys and you're a, a fairly masculine person by nature. Like you're, that's just who you are, the world we're living in, right.

Jeff Nesbitt: Demonizes masculinity in a lot of ways, toxic masculinity is a real thing that I, that I do happen to despise. But it's not all masculinity. I'm raising a boy and I regularly find myself kind of conflicted with how to tell him to be, cuz my instinct is not, I guess instinct's not the right word. My teaching would tell me, you know, tell him to be humble and calm and non-aggressive and non-threatening, and to be appeasing to other people.

he it to be like, uh, all or [: 01:26:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I don't wanna raise somebody who thinks it's okay to be a chauvinist or a misogynist. Like, I don't know how to navigate that all the time. What do you think it's a different world for, for men that it was when you brought your sons? Oh,

Ed Darcher: very definitely, but in a lot of cases it's for the better. Uh, I agree.

Ed Darcher: Uh, I mean when, as you were talking there, I'm thinking you, uh, a lot of what the masculinity they're gonna learn, and this is a no-brainer, is what they observe from their dad or the, uh, the male, you know, the dominant male in their. I'm wearing a flower shirt. Well, that has that. Um, uh, I love flowers. I don't care.

Me too. I don't care either. [: 01:27:00

Jeff Nesbitt: no, but you know what I mean though. Oh,

Ed Darcher: no. Oh, I, and that's what I'm saying. I mean, if, you know, uh, uh, there's just, I'll give you an example. Being a man, and you go ahead.

Jeff Nesbitt: Some, some kid is, uh, phys being physical with my son. This is not actually happening.

Jeff Nesbitt: It's a hypothetical. No one would mess with Sawyer. He's very tough. But, uh, some bigger kid is like messing with him, pushing him or taking his lunch money or, you know, telling him he can't read good or something. Who knows? And, um, the, the traditional way would be like, stand up for yourself if he, if he's getting physical with you, hit him.

Jeff Nesbitt: Like, uh, that would've been definitely what my dad would've said to me. And I, I don't say that. I say just, you know, walk away, ignore it. Try to make friends with him. Like, try the, the way I treat assholes at work. That's how I tell my kids to treat assholes in real life. And I don't treat, I, I, like, I don't treat it like it's a honor thing like that.

Jeff Nesbitt: [: 01:28:00

Ed Darcher: Boy, that's a tough one because my immediate response is, uh, punch 'em in the. . But that's, that's instinct. Yeah. That is instinct. But that's not the smartest thing to do cuz a kid, you know, that's also, you know, of course you shouldn't be that afraid of giving.

Ed Darcher: It's a different world too. Cause it really is pe the rules have changed. People are, uh, get hurt more frequently. Uh, or you can, uh, and the way that you, the, the, uh, physical responses, situations, the view, it's not socially acceptable anymore or, you know, as, as, as much as it used to be.

Jeff Nesbitt: Probably still feels good though to punch a bully.

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh,

g the, you know, what do you [: 01:29:00

Jeff Nesbitt: that's the thing is like, I know what I stand for in principle, but it's hard in, in, in practice to actually do it. You know?

Ed Darcher: Uh, uh, if you gotta way out, take it. There you go. But if you're in a corner, if you're in a corner, uh, kick 'em. Yeah. Uh, fight your way out. Fight your way out and get out and, and, uh, let me know. Okay.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's actually a great answer. And I have another question that's equally complicated about girls. The world is a dark and evil place and it's full of men who half, half of a half the population are men.

n't take very many to really [: 01:30:00

Ed Darcher: Orks. Orks.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, there you go. Creatures of the night. Yeah. Evil, dark, just selfish,

Ed Darcher: almost subhuman.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Yep.

Jeff Nesbitt: Predators. Yep. And I don't want to scare my daughters into thinking the world is a place that's not welcoming to them, so that they just become small. But I also don't want them to have any misconceptions about the dangers that they face as women, as being the creatures of the object of male desire is a liability.

Jeff Nesbitt: And I don't, I don't really always know how to handle that. Like I don't wanna be a sexist because that's not right either. But also, I'm okay to let my 12 year old boy go for a bike ride by himself. Not okay to let my 12 year old daughter, and I've come into conflict with that regularly. I don't know how to handle it.

Ed Darcher: That's

but I don't trust the world.[: 01:31:00

Jeff Nesbitt: You raised daughters who are very s. Like, they seem self-fulfilled. They both went to excellent colleges and are in successful Oh,

Ed Darcher: yeah. Thriving careers. They're not, they're not afraid. My own, they're not afraid. She just got off a six month trip. Oh, Christ. Uh, how'd you do that?

Jeff Nesbitt: How did you do that? I wanna do that

Ed Darcher: Yeah. They're, they're, they're both, they're pretty, uh, Alana Jesus, some of the experiences, she's, she's, she's an impressive woman. She's been lucky. I mean, I don't know if she's went into some of the stuff she's did over in India where they were with, with, up in the, oh, the meditation studies, uh, in Dharma Ali, where she was with the Dai Lama there.

t shit that, and that's what [: 01:32:00

Ed Darcher: She, uh, uh, she, uh, uh, you know, learned how to defend herself. Uh, I, when I know where you're, you know, ELS's, she's not, not any woo. She's no slouch. That's the shit. No, no. I know. She, and, and, uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: she's got the grip strength of a full grown male chimpanzee.

Ed Darcher: Yep. That I remember you telling me that. I mean, uh, you, you, you, you know, you wanna go bike riding and there's some shitty people out there, and I, you know, you gotta understand where I'm coming from.

Ed Darcher: She's probably old enough to understand

asshole, which I am in this [: 01:33:00

Ed Darcher: I mean, uh, she got a cell phone.

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, that's a whole nother set of dangers right there. Yeah. But that's one you didn't have to fuck with. I hate, hate

Ed Darcher: dealing with that problem. No, no. I, I can only imagine that,

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, God, my 11 year old is seeing all these people,

Ed Darcher: they grow up faster than you want 'em because of this.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, it's true. I don't even have a choice anymore.

Jeff Nesbitt: Like, it, it, your choices now are either have a, a kid who's socially accepted and normal, but struggling with anxiety and self-value issues because they're looking at these other people online all the time and comparing themselves. Or you have a weird kid. That's

Ed Darcher: the other option. You know, having a weird kid isn't necessarily.

Ed Darcher: The source of the weirdness.

ean, none of my kids fit in. [: 01:34:00

Ed Darcher: the world. And Lana could was, I'm sure she was called weird. Uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: some weird is good and some weird is bad

Ed Darcher: for some reason, you know, but it didn't, you know, the thing about her is she never cared.

Ed Darcher: That is the trick.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's the trick for success in

Ed Darcher: life. Yeah. I mean, frankly, I, I, I treated the girls,

Ed Darcher: I guess I treated 'em different, but I had the same expectations for them as I did for the guys. And I was tough on them too. And, and, and there really wasn't, you know, um, uh, that much difference in the technique as, as far, you know, and, and,

Jeff Nesbitt: uh, well maybe that is the answer, maybe that is just treat 'em the same and hope for the best.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah.

Ed Darcher: I, I actually, if I had a boy, that's probably would be as, as a simple as the core of it.

tt: I think you're right cuz [: 01:35:00

Ed Darcher: said she's not aware of it yet, but, uh, you know, if, I don't know.

Ed Darcher: I mean, 12 years old, she's what? Uh, eighth What grade now? Sixth. Seventh. Seventh. Seventh. I mean that's, I mean, she's gotta be aware that there's some real, you know, she sees assholes in her class, right?

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. It's not that she doesn't think that there is, she's not naive about the dangers, but she is overconfident about her ability to avoid them and her ability to like, well, like for example, Amelia, lately, she's been on this kick where she keeps telling me like, if somebody breaks in or attacks me, this is gonna be awesome cuz I'm gonna kick him in the face.

know how easy it'd be for me [: 01:36:00

Ed Darcher: You know, you may just have to overcome your fear of that happening. I don't think I have

Jeff Nesbitt: a choice. . I gotta wait it out. I might not be able to wait it out. I think I'll still be afraid even after she's an adult.

Ed Darcher: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean it, but I mean, there's,

Jeff Nesbitt: is this just what it is? Parenting is just like your, your heart is just out

Ed Darcher: in the world forever.

o gradually. It's, it's, you [: 01:37:00

Ed Darcher: The function is adults, but, you know, without suff, it's a, it's a balance in that without trying to constrain them and let too much of your own influence, you know, restrict the development, blah, blah. Um, so hold on

Jeff Nesbitt: loosely, but don't let go. You squeeze too tight. I never like that song. You're gonna lose control.

Jeff Nesbitt: Is that song about masturbation? It must be. Oh, no. I don't even want it. I think it's gotta be, um, it's a gross song. I don't know why you brought it up.

e, this is common knowledge. [: 01:38:00

Jeff Nesbitt: To these points all over the, is that at all possible? No.

Ed Darcher: Please explain. Physically it's not, it's not possible. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how you would, uh, uh, uh,

Ed Darcher: a project of that magnitude is, is, is engineering is impossible, I would say. And because

Jeff Nesbitt: of the, the engineering problems or the social problems, the

Ed Darcher: engineering problems, also the, the right of way problems. I mean, from on multiple levels. That, that is just inconceivable. And I don't, and no matter No, that is, that is a very, that, that is science fiction.

s exactly what it would take [: 01:39:00

Ed Darcher: believing shit. Anybody believes that. And, and seriously has no information, has no, they, they have no, they're lazy because you, you, you, if you did even a little bit of research on what it would take to accomplish that in the first, there is no way of doing it surreptitiously, or whatever word might fit better.

Ed Darcher: Uh, you couldn't do it un disguised. Mm-hmm. .

Jeff Nesbitt: The explosions

Ed Darcher: are loud. Well, it wouldn't, you wouldn't, there's another type of mining. This is another way, reason why, why hard rock mining. The drill, the kind that I did ended, because more and more they now, any kind of mining, they use, uh, uh, boring machines.

can go through all sorts of [: 01:40:00

Ed Darcher: Now they've, that's not the

Jeff Nesbitt: case. And this machine is fully mechanical. It's not Oh, yeah. Not

Ed Darcher: only that. It lays you can concrete, you know, put in support right behind it as it's going forward. It's like a, it does it all. Wow. Yeah. It's full

Jeff Nesbitt: service machine, huh? Y yeah,

Ed Darcher: well, the machine doesn't, it's not like the machine does, of course.

Ed Darcher: It's, it's, you know, requires, uh, uh, uh, uh, labor. Yeah. To and, and ex, you know, for now for, no, that is some you, the judgment, the calls there were always, I don't see how AI could, um, uh, completely, uh, uh, uh,

Ed Darcher: human [: 01:41:00

Jeff Nesbitt: ridiculous.

Jeff Nesbitt: Excellent answer. That's what I want to hear. I, that's, that's what drives me crazy, is, uh, there's people who believe that. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh fuck. A lot of people, um, the internet is full of people who believe things that make no sense. They're,

Ed Darcher: that's, they're goof, that's goofy people.

Jeff Nesbitt: This is the world we're living in now.

Jeff Nesbitt: It's crazy what people believe. Are people gonna listen

Ed Darcher: to this? Yeah. Or anybody believes that theory has got shit for brains? I swear to God, because if you believe that stuff, let me, let me, uh, so you

uld actually make a judgment [: 01:42:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I'm not a person with that information, so that's why I asked you. So many people will avoid asking those people because they want to believe this crazy shit. Or whether it is just because they're bored or because they actually. Have a genuine, deep seated distrust of authority, whatever the reason, they actively want to believe the thing that is likely not true.

Jeff Nesbitt: So they will avoid information that conflicts with their bias. It's as reasonable

Ed Darcher: to believe that, believe in Santa Claus as it is to believe in that Santa

Jeff Nesbitt: Claus bring presence to my house every year

Jeff Nesbitt: in

Ed Darcher: a reindeer. I don't know. I don't see 'em. God help you .

re dealing with here because [: 01:43:00

Ed Darcher: possibility.

Ed Darcher: It's, it's, it's, it's a physical impossibility. I think we need

Jeff Nesbitt: that. My point with this whole conversation, I, I, under, I I get this is the reason we need to talk about conspiracy theories because if we don't talk about them, people just believe them. Like bad ideas are only negated by good ideas. Bad information is only negated by good information and without that it just stands.

Jeff Nesbitt: So when people make these claims about there's tunnels full of child trafficking that go all over the country, or, um, you know, the, it's endless. I could come up with a thousand examples of these theories unless somebody with inform. That is like val, like somebody with experience and valid information.

Jeff Nesbitt: Unless that person actually takes the time to confront these, these assertions, they just stay. They just stay.

Ed Darcher: I mean [: 01:44:00

Ed Darcher: the labor,

Ed Darcher: the people required to fulfill such a massive cons construction, there aren't, it'll take 30 years. They, they, they don't exist. There's not enough of them. Mm-hmm. .

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I, I believe you. I

Ed Darcher: believe you. And the resources. Wait, um, you know how many tons, zillion, tons of concrete that would take, uh, and steel. Now nobody's gonna notice that.

Ed Darcher: Who's gonna manufacture that? I

Jeff Nesbitt: never noticed it. Elves. I never noticed them bringing in any of the steel and concrete for the Hoover Dam.

Jeff Nesbitt: But they did. Were you

Ed Darcher: around? No. Well, how

Jeff Nesbitt: could you Exactly. You gotta be there to notice stuff.

Ed Darcher: Somebody was, somebody would've noticed. Yeah.

ven trying to talk about the [: 01:45:00

Jeff Nesbitt: And now that we have the internet, we can talk about whatever the fuck we want. And it's, and it has, uh, led to some

Ed Darcher: changes in society. Well, that's all, that's also part of the reason why we're talking about this conspiracy, because he can, if I'm following you, you know? Yeah. Uh, it's just as easy to pedal nonsense than it is to, you know, to kind of strike harmony with the truth.

Jeff Nesbitt: Exactly. That's why I think it's so important that people talk, people who know what they're talking about need to talk, because otherwise the idiots are much louder.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. But they don't wanna, they no,

Jeff Nesbitt: they don't

Ed Darcher: want to. When you're wired just to receive information that is, is supportive of your, you know, uh, lazy

Jeff Nesbitt: habits, which is the natural instinct of a human being,

Ed Darcher: more or less.

Ed Darcher: But [: 01:46:00

Jeff Nesbitt: do you ever think about big picture things like that though, like the way that small developments or small changes in, in society or the way we live can have major downstream consequences. Something as simple as it being socially acceptable to talk about things that may be crazy.

Jeff Nesbitt: I don't

that I have at least a fair [: 01:47:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I would say you do.

Jeff Nesbitt: I would say you do. And that's becoming harder and harder all the

Ed Darcher: time. Yeah, no, no, it is like you were striking. You don't believe the news, but you know where it's coming from. But there, I think that you can make a effort to be modestly satisfied if you, you know, with, you know, don't accept one news source, which, you know, make, make an effort to try and get opposing views and, and be able to balance out.

Ed Darcher: I'm

Jeff Nesbitt: not even worried that it's not true. Like I'm not worried that the news is pre presenting lies. I am worried that the reasons they're telling us what they're telling us are not the reasons that we would like to think. Like, it's not so that we are informed citizens. It's so that we behave in a certain way.

Jeff Nesbitt: I think we're being programmed by the news.

cher: I don't think, see, I. [: 01:48:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Well, I mean, they literally call it programming. Well,

Ed Darcher: it, that's goes on, that's going on a long time. Yeah. Uh, I know, but

Ed Darcher: I mean, just personally, ed, do you I don't think about, I don't, I've never considered it as a dangerous game as such. As such. Yeah. I mean, I've been too busy just trying to get through the day and, and uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: that's exactly what they're counting on the people. If there are malicious actors in this scenario, that's exactly what they're hoping for.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. That

Ed Darcher: would make sense. And it's working well.

Ed Darcher: Yeah.

t it just cuz it's like that [: 01:49:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, it is. I'm depressed as fuck.

Ed Darcher: No. Are you serious? Sometimes? Yeah. Oh, no. I, okay. Yeah. I didn't know if you were being a little smart man.

Ed Darcher: I,

Jeff Nesbitt: I mean, everything I say is supposed to be a little funny and a little sad. That's just the way I

Ed Darcher: am. I mean, I was just saying I'm depressed as fuck. Uh, okay.

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, I'm, I'm not, I'm not always depressed as fuck, but like, I'm not clinically depressed right now, although I have had that diagnosis. I'm, that's not something I'm struggling with at this time.

Jeff Nesbitt: But, uh, it, I do find it very depressing to look at the state of the world and the state of information and the way people are treating each other and it's depressing.

way that we're looking at it [: 01:50:00

Ed Darcher: Silly to me? Yeah. Or, or makes nonsensical, uh, what conclusion

Jeff Nesbitt: do you draw after that question? Generally,

Jeff Nesbitt: I, I feel like it can go one of two ways. Either you draw the conclusion you must be stupid or you draw the conclusion. You must have been tricked.

Ed Darcher: No, I, I, the first, these, the first one of course is, you know, the question you ask is what, what the, what's the matter with you?

Jeff Nesbitt: I guess there's a third option.

Jeff Nesbitt: Am I wrong? But that let's face

, take the Georgia, take the [: 01:51:00

Ed Darcher: That may

t be a good example, would be: 2016

Jeff Nesbitt: And same with the Trump supporters. Mm-hmm. . And it's just because they're, no, that is

Ed Darcher: actually a better example.

Jeff Nesbitt: They have no idea. They're living in two different realities. Uh, actually way more than two. It's, we're at 1 51 right now, so we won't get into, uh, quantum entanglement. But did you hear about the Nobel Nobel Prize this year for physics?

Jeff Nesbitt: No way.

Ed Darcher: May

h, actually I don't remember [: 01:52:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Like there's no such thing as a objective, as an objective physical reality that we all share. It's not a place where each one of us has our own and they're all different and they are projected from our head, not, we're not, we're not a consciousness walking around a a reality. We are a consciousness making a reality.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's what the, that's the gist of it. And, um, there, there are no limitations of space and time .

Ed Darcher: This is real shit. No, no. I, I, no, I haven't. And

that's quantum entanglement. [: 01:53:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Doesn't mean all that much unless you are act like actively in that research and trying to make it, put it in context of your own life. But it is some pretty groundbreaking information to try to process, but. Like I said, we're deep in the podcast. We're not gonna get into quantum relativity at

Ed Darcher: all. I'm going back to mining.

Ed Darcher: I think it'd be simpler to drill . It probably is. Or do what we do. Uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: simple's good. There's definitely something about just

Ed Darcher: like, I mean that, wow, that's,

Jeff Nesbitt: I've always thought that, so it's, it, it wasn't shocking to me. I've always thought that since I was a little kid, that your reality is not the same as mine.

Jeff Nesbitt: Well,

Ed Darcher: that I can Oh, no. That, and we're that, that, uh,

t in a perspective way or in [: 01:54:00

Ed Darcher: well into what we were just talking about. The difference of a, you know, view. View, how you can be, have such strikingly different, uh, uh, uh, beliefs, viewpoints, people just full

Jeff Nesbitt: different paradigm just off operating off a different

Ed Darcher: set of, uh, conspiracy theories, you know, the, the, the, uh, or perception of reality.

Ed Darcher: Yeah, yeah. Or misperception.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, did you know they were about to release that Kennedy report? No. So, ah, I wish I knew the timeline on this better. Kennedy was assassinated in 63. Yep. The, ah, what was that commission, the Warren Commission, was it the Warren Commission? Yep. The Warren Commission investigated.

ge that was at a right angle [: 01:55:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, because the, the FBI and the CIA could have potentially bungled that. And if they were the ones who killed Kennedy, they especially might have bungled it. So they took a look at the, the Warren Commission report and it was so terrible. What they found in there was so bad that they said, we gotta, we can't let people see this until all these people are dead.

ed to be originally opened in: 2021

Ed Darcher: remember that by the time I get home to look it up.

hschool. I was in Ridgewood, [: 01:56:00

Ed Darcher: Glads another kid cuz it was there, there it was a fairly uh, uh, uh, upscale neighborhood there. And, and so there were a lot of Republican. I assumed that they were anti-Democratic. Yeah. Was

Jeff Nesbitt: Kennedy pretty, uh, polarizing? Did he split the population? Yeah,

Ed Darcher: the like, but part partly cause he was Catholic. Oh, he was a fir you know, uh, there was still that impediment to um, or yeah, not like it is now or shit.

Ed Darcher: Half the Supreme Court's Catholic,

owed to tell their religion. [: 01:57:00

Jeff Nesbitt: It's fucking asinine. .

Ed Darcher: You might as well have not tell their color or their race. I

Jeff Nesbitt: don't see color ed. I don't see race. Everyone's the same to me. Bullshit. Yeah. Everyone, everyone has a thing. It's, it's okay to have a color . It's not a problem. It's okay to have a religion. It's also not a problem. But I think that it should not like the, the, to the extent to which we acknowledge how much that, uh, religious fundamentalism plays a role in our political system is corrupt.

Jeff Nesbitt: It shouldn't be allowed. It's not allowed. It's a theocracy. It's

ver, the driver's in Jersey, [: 01:58:00

Ed Darcher: I could have driven around in a circle, maybe I did. And then when it was done, he just never said a fricking word past me. And that was, he was bummed. Oh God. Yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I bet a lot of people were. Yeah. It seemed like, I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there. And every account of that time is gonna be painted to look a certain way.

like the way it felt when, in: 2008

Ed Darcher: are similar.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. No, there, there are similarities there. If Obama

Jeff Nesbitt: would've been assassinated in his first term, it would've been such a travesty. So many people would've been, I mean, he would've been canonized just like Kennedy.

Oh, the riots that would've [: 01:59:00

Jeff Nesbitt: been worse than Kennedy cuz he's black.

Jeff Nesbitt: Oh yeah. No, no. It

Ed Darcher: would've had a racial component without a doubt. Uh,

Jeff Nesbitt: yeah.

Jeff Nesbitt: Anybody looking good in the next election, you. Yeah. Right. Never couldn't pay me enough. Couldn't pay me enough. I wouldn't vote for you. I was voted most likely to be president of my Highschool class. So it's uh, president of what? United States of America. Oh, wow. I was also voted most likely to be famous.

Jeff Nesbitt: And I'm neither of those things. It's bullshit. Yeah. You are,

Ed Darcher: You're a mover or shaker in Pacific County working on it so far. Working on it so far. And just to start, you're still a puppy.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's true. That's true. I'll probably be running the show someday. Yeah, you can't do it forever. , you're a running, are you gonna be county commissioner when you're done with green crab?

Jeff Nesbitt: You joking? I'm absolutely

Darcher: serious. I've been [: 02:00:00

Jeff Nesbitt: there's not a lot of good, uh, candidates. I've people who actually understand how the county works, understand what needs to happen, have experience working on boards. You're a really qualified and you do good. You would be good at it. They don't make I would be their

Ed Darcher: money, but they money.

e want their yard pumped out.[: 02:01:00

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Because of water or something like that. Yeah. I mean, it's like, I

Jeff Nesbitt: pay $3 a year for flood control and you could come out

Ed Darcher: here and pump it. , , I'd start laugh. I'm not sure what people are very entitled, but, uh, anyway, uh, I, let's just say I'd have, I have not been asked outside of you and I would have to think

Jeff Nesbitt: about it.

Jeff Nesbitt: I would vote for you and then you can hire me as the clerk. I'll, I'll be the clerk of the board. And that way when they call to yell at you, I'll handle them. I'm good at that.

Ed Darcher: No, I don't need, I'd, I'd, uh, uh, I have some other candidates in mine. All right. All right.

Jeff Nesbitt: That's the second time I've been turned down for a job this

Ed Darcher: month.

Ed Darcher: You're doing a good job where you are and, uh, I hope you stay there. And my part of my, uh, responsibility would be to make sure that you get what you need to continue the excellent work that you're doing as director of, , .

hat's okay. I'll, I'll bleep [: 02:02:00

Ed Darcher: Uh, it goes by fast. No. Yeah. Let's see. A lot faster than a fucking green crab meeting, huh? I, um, yeah, green crab.

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, how was that meeting today, by the way?

Jeff Nesbitt: All good. We're

Ed Darcher: all, you mean you mean with Larissa? Yeah. And Oh, excellent. Yeah, actually the fir the first hour of it was a very good discussion where we've been, what needs to be done, uh, sharing resources, you know what just, and then as you know, then it kind of like most of the stuff di disintegrates into silliness and squabbles.

, that's a hack joke. Then I [: 02:03:00

Ed Darcher: Which your course

Jeff Nesbitt: I would say , we're just getting ready for the Civil War to start. Hasn't even started that.

. I shouldn't, I think that's: 2025

Jeff Nesbitt: not. It's already going. It's just a culture war. Nah,

Ed Darcher: we've, we've had the char there's been low coals burning for forever.

Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, that's true. It, it's always something.

Ed Darcher: Uh, there's still enough, uh, uh, reasonable people. I, you have to continue this manure on both sides that, uh, uh, saner minds will prevail.

Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, I don't do that. I should do that. I never assume that you,

Ed Darcher: I have to

Jeff Nesbitt: other, otherwise, maybe that's what I'm doing wrong. I just assume that shit will, you know, descend into chaos.

Jeff Nesbitt: [: 02:04:00

Ed Darcher: I, I will give you some, I will give you something to reinforce the fact of. I wouldn't even call positive thinking, but knowing what I've, um, the privilege that I've had of watching your growth during the last 15 years, ha has been, uh, very, uh, uh, uh, rewarding to me. Me too. Now, you should look at yourself as if you, you know, you've worked your way up, worked through some, some difficult times, uh, progressed, made, you know, you're, you've made you, you've been a success.

you some, at least a little [: 02:05:00

Jeff Nesbitt: I think that in a way it does, but in, on another end of it, that was really fucking hard.

Jeff Nesbitt: And it, and a lot of times throughout those 15 years, I was, I was probably, I mean, I, it's hard to say given up, but I wanted to not care. I wanted to not try hard and I would've loved to just give up, uh, and just become nothing. And, but I couldn't, cuz I didn't have a support system to allow that to be possible.

Jeff Nesbitt: I feel like, I don't think there, I'm trying to think of a way to say this without making like it seem like I'm patting myself on the back. I don't think there are a lot of people around who are willing to work as hard as me. And that worries me because I know you are a person who works like that. And there are people like that.

ucking soft people out there [: 02:06:00

Jeff Nesbitt: That is not how I see work at all. Even the worst kind, I see it as a, as, even though it is sometimes very unpleasant and maybe not enjoyable, I always see it on the other end of it. I always see it as a positive thing.

Ed Darcher: I can't disagree with anything you said, at least as far as people who want to do, get the most and do the, expect the most and do the least blah, blah.

Ed Darcher: You know, they're just classic entitlement. Yep. But, um, I'm trying to think, uh,

Ed Darcher: I, I'm, I was saying that about you

archer: as maybe of, you can [: 02:07:00

Ed Darcher: No, I,

Jeff Nesbitt: I, I'm picturing a metaphor. I actually used to use a lot to talk about depression where when I was really depressed, I would describe it like trying to look through a dirty window, and your whole life is happening and you're, everything you see is through this window. And usually like, if you're not feeling depressed, the window's clean and you don't even notice it.

rty window is obscuring your [: 02:08:00

Jeff Nesbitt: you end up using a lot of energy on just trying to see through that dirty window when really it, a lot of people don't even know there's a window there. Like, um, that's the bad analogy, but,

Ed Darcher: hey, I've been there. I, I know what you're, I

Jeff Nesbitt: know you're, I don't wanna spend all my time focused on the shitty parts of life, but that's where the threats are, so it's hard not to.

Ed Darcher: Yeah. Well,

Ed Darcher: Maybe we should pick this up another time when you Yeah,

mpact on my life and it's in [: 02:09:00

Jeff Nesbitt: You've been a very good mentor to me. You, I wouldn't know a lot of the stuff I know without your help and, um, not even just professionally, but just as a man. It's, I like, I love the way you parent. I like the way that you're a husband. There's a lot of things about your life that I admire and you have been a good role model for me.

Jeff Nesbitt: So thank you. I genuinely appreciate you.

Ed Darcher: That's heartfelt, Jeff. And I'll take that home with me and I'll remember that because, you know, as you as the leave more leaves fall from the tree of my life as the sands run out, whatever, you know, you wanna apply to it. Uh, knowing that you've had some at least kind of positive impact on others, you know, is very positive.

he best I think a person can [: 02:10:00

Jeff Nesbitt: That's it. That's where I notice it the most is like, now that I'm aging and I'm, I'm in. Yeah, but you earned it. I, I don't know. That's hard to really

Ed Darcher: know. And, and, uh, it's just, I chuckle at our relationship sometimes. I'm going back to mine one more time. The mining, there used to be this expression, you know, that, that, that you, you treat your nipper Well, nipper was an old term even before my, what's a nier?

Ed Darcher: Nipper is somebody who, Hey, go get this for me. Go get that. I need this. Go get, I need two cases of pat, blah, blah, blah. Go get it. Mm-hmm. a dipper. The gopher. Yeah. Be kind to your nipper because you may be working for him someday. , you never know. But

Jeff Nesbitt: it's, I actually think that Seth .

Jeff Nesbitt: Could be my boss

Ed Darcher: [: 02:11:00

Ed Darcher: Yeah. You know, it's fun. Get they get 'em out of their

Jeff Nesbitt: routine. Yeah. Especially cuz uh, well, Caden especially, he's just fresh outta Highschool and, it's his first experiences in the adult world. I'm four

Ed Darcher: times his age. Yeah. That's crazy. It is crazy. Wow. . Think about

Jeff Nesbitt: your ed, your age is, has fucked up my view of what age looks like

Ed Darcher: Yeah. I, no, I I, I, I still, I have the same reaction, . I'm not,

Jeff Nesbitt: I don't know how somebody in their late fifties is old and you're not, it, it's somehow you've figured it out.

ere is some truth to that. A [: 02:12:00

Jeff Nesbitt: Isn't it crazy too though that like a year ago right now, Y you seem younger now than you did a year ago.

Jeff Nesbitt: What? A year ago You were kind of Moy, you're, you're getting ready to retire and you were, you didn't wanna retire and everyone was constantly talking about you're retiring and you were kind of sick of that shit. Wow. You know? And then, uh, the green crab thing happened and which you made it happen. And then all of a sudden it was a new challenge and a new adventure and you were revitalized and all that moist disappeared.

Jeff Nesbitt: And you're back to the, back to the vibrant ed that I know and love.

Ed Darcher: Well, you know, I'm looking for the next one now. Yeah. And not the final one either. There's always the next one, . Yeah. The next one is the, well, who knows? We'll save that for the next, uh, Jeff episode. There we go. All right. This is a good time then.

there. It's been a pleasure [: 02:13:00

Jeff Nesbitt: All right. All right. Thank you guys for tuning in. Appreciate it. And we'll talk to you next time.

Bye-Bye.