Episode 41

full
Published on:

21st Aug 2021

Call the S.W.A.T. Team, We've Got A Wild One with Devannon Hubert

Devannon Hubert is the host of Sex, Drugs, and Jesus, a podcast that highlights taboo concepts and the people that enjoy them. He joined me on Ramble by the River to discuss his life as a gay man, his experience of being excommunicated from his church, his time in the military, his rise to prominence in the black-market drug trade; his HIV diagnosis; and his eventual arrest by SWAT team. We covered a lot of ground over two hours and kept coming back to ideas about how to practice acceptance and tolerance in a world that sometimes feels so hostile and unforgiving that selfless love feels impossible.

We covered hypnosis, drug abuse, religion, romance, social manipulation, oppression, hate, love, and podcasting. Devannon brings his irreverent and hilarious sense of humor to these heavy topics and the result is something magical.

I really like this episode. I think it shows how two people can appear to be quite different on the surface, but deep down we all share so much in common. I had a great time making this thing and I hope you enjoy listening to it.

If you want to support the show...

Go to the all new Ramble by the River Patreon.

Thank you so much for being part of the Ram-fam,

Jeff

Topics/Keywords:

podcasting; starting a podcast; Podmatch.com; Alex Sanfilipo; matchmaker.fm; Descript.com; audio editing, audio production; podcast community building; church; LBGTQ; children’s church; community service; volunteering to serve; gay-affirming church; The Golden Compass; Nicole Kidman; The Matrix; mass-deception; hypnotherapy; stage hypnosis; highly-suggest-able state; critical thought; executive control; willful suspension of disbelief; personality types; LSD-assisted hypnotherapy; psilocybin; Triumph of the Will; Adolf Hitler; Hitler Youth; propaganda; evangelical church; evangelists; Don’t Ask Don’t Tell; gay in the military; The Village People; homosexuality conversion; conversion therapy; gold-star gay; dreams; dreaming; dream-interpretation; Sigmund Freud; dream symbols; prophetic dreams; supernatural abilities; premonitions, deja vu; collective unconscious; Carl G. Jung; Buddhists; religious diversity; philosophical autonomy; drunkenness; sobriety; abstinence; wine; alcohol; addiction; Alcoholics Anonymous, 12-step programs; environmental correlates of addiction; Dr. Carl Hart; Columbia University; Drug Use For Grown-ups; relapse; harm-reduction strategy; Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous; heroin injection sites; needle exchange; morality; psychoactive substances; methamphetamine; cocaine; sugar; Christianity; Jesus Christ; free will; women’s right to choose; abortion; The Bible; Love; apostle Paul; House of Cards; Book of Acts; Joel Olstein, Joyce Meyers; John the Baptist, social isolation; idolatry; wealth; Sex, Drugs, and Jesus: A memoir of Self-destruction and Resurrection; HIV; AIDS; Hepatitis B; drug dealers; selling meth; trauma; PTSD; SWAT; Houston, TX; trap house; bug chasers; HIV treatments; Truvada; Magic Johnson; Mary J. Blige; Chik-fil-A; Donald J. Trump.

Guest Links:

Devannon Hubert

-Podcast: Sex, Drugs, and Jesus

-Book (Coming soon): Sex, Drugs, and Jesus: A Memoir of Self-Destruction and Resuection

Connect:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopix

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Websites:

www.sexdrugsandjesus.com

Ramble by the River Links:

Business inquiries/guest booking: Ramblebytheriver@gmail.com

Website:

(For episode catalogue): Ramblebytheriver.captivate.fm

(Podcast main page): RamblebytheRiver.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jeff.nesbitt.9619

Instagram: @ramblebytheriver

Twitter: @RambleRiverPod

Youtube: https://youtube.com/channel/UCNiZ9OBYRxF3fJ4XcsDxLeg

Links mentioned in the episode:

Podmatch.com

Dreammoods.com

Book: Drug Use For Grown-ups by Dr. Carl L. Hart

Article: Mary J. Blige Still Slays, New York Times

Music Credit(s):

Still Fly, Revel Day.

Sweet Talk (instrumental version), Tyra Chantey

Up and Down, Toby Tanter

Transcript

Devannon Hubert

intro jeff-1

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[00:00:27] You can find us on Twitter at ramble river pod, and you can find all of this information along with the email to contact me for guests suggestions and any kind of useful links that you might hear in this episode. Right there in the show notes. It's been another crazy hectic week. It never ends. Of course, it's always crazy and hectic, but yeah, it's been great.

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[00:01:11] So that's something to look forward to. And another announcement. So I'm not exactly sure when this is going to take effect, but at some point in the near future, we are going to change the structure. I've rambled by the river.

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[00:01:50] However, there will be an additional episode offered for a subscription and that subscription won't be expensive, but with [00:02:00] that payment, you'll be entitled to. Exclusive episodes that are only available to subscribers. So those episodes will be basically an extended version of the free episodes. Everything you get in the free episodes, plus all the spicy stuff that we couldn't leave in there because of, tender years who we don't know are listening, I'd like to be able to be streamed all over the world.

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[00:02:44] So I'm thinking we'll make a kid friendly version that has bleeps in blurps for the swear words, it'll be shorter it'll be quicker. Also. Not everybody wants to listen to the two hour podcasts. Some people just want a shorter podcast. I'm going to give it to them. The [00:03:00] Condensed version will still be free forever, always on every platform as it is now.

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[00:03:24] There's going to be behind the scenes, sneak peaks, early access to material, all kinds of stuff, guys, all kinds of stuff. We might even do a raffle who knows a Q and A's meet and greets all kinds of stuff. And right now it's just the transitional phase. So we're getting things set up and moved over the new structure. But yeah, that's still going to be the place where you can find the most. Up-to-date information updates, I'll post the episodes there and try to throw on as much bonus content as possible even before January when the actual switchover happens. Basically, this is where I'm going to start putting the majority of [00:04:00] my creative energy is into these subscribers.

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[00:04:34] So If you have enjoyed these episodes This is episode 40 or 41. and you want to support the show and help me make sure. Just go on over to Patreon.com/ramble by the river. And subscribe again. That's Patreon P a T R E O by the river Thank you.

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[00:05:09] And how he was persecuted as a gay man in the church. And he joined the military. He was a military recruiter. He did so many things, but long story short, he travels from religion to the streets, homelessness, drugs, mental illness, risky behavior, lot of risky behavior. Man. Some risky behaviorDe'vannon huh?

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[00:05:59] He's also [00:06:00] written a book called sex drugs and Jesus, a memoir of self-destruction and resurrection. And this covers his story, much of what we covered on the podcast today, including his HIV diagnosis and his trip, to rock bottom and back. He's a great dude. I think that. Kind of establish a bit of a friendship.

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[00:06:33] Some of the themes that permeated the whole thing were really positive. And they're exactly the kind of themes that I like to promote on this. So things like inclusion, tolerance, understanding, and when it comes right down to it, practicing love, trying to be, Christ-like trying to be good people trying to accept the hard stuff that has happened around us and, and take it with a grain of salt and learn from it and [00:07:00] how to be better.

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[00:07:21] So use discretion. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. Don't forget to like subscribe all that good stuff and also go subscribe to De'vannon's podcast, sex, drugs, and Jesus. Without further ado, please enjoy this podcast with the delightful and inspiring De'vannon Hubert.

MAIN INTERVIEW

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[00:00:01] Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, how's it going?

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[00:00:08] Jeff Nesbitt: all those same things looking forward to the interview. Uh, I've listened to a couple of your podcasts. They're good.

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[00:00:26] Yeah. Fired everyone who was currently, uh, who, who was previously helping me up through episode eight. So from episode nine, I've taken over pretty much all aspects of it. And I feel like it's more intense than it was before and so yeah, I'm changing like the intro and like everything like that, I'm doing my own show knows my own editing and like everything.

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[00:01:17] And what you have concocted in your, , Podcast load. We down here in Louisiana would call a jambalaya. Exactly. Little mix of everything.

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[00:01:39] DeVannon Hubert: So w what, what recording now is this for the show? Or we just I'm like talking right now.

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[00:01:48] DeVannon Hubert: Yeah.

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[00:01:51] Yeah.

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[00:01:55] DeVannon Hubert: which it is what it is. I don't really care if anyone knows, uh, because, um, [00:02:00] how did I meet them? I met with them because the individual who I'm collaborating with to write my memoir, hired them to, uh, like he has like people who like a scattered group of creatives who do things like work on audio or podcasts, you know, he's one of those people who do this new business model of, they don't really know what to do, but they'll find the people who can do it and charge them.

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[00:02:46] Hey, was a great start. You know, it got me started because when I first started, I was like, wow though, fuck, can I cuss on this show? Like say whatever the fuck you want. Okay, cool. So like, I was like, oh fuck. Do I get started doing a [00:03:00] podcast? And you go on the website, you know, the internet to search and a thousand different pages come up.

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[00:03:26] Incredible. There's also potted that net and matchmaker.fm.

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[00:03:32] DeVannon Hubert: and then you can use like this script to do your own editing and stuff like that. I have started to

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[00:03:38] DeVannon Hubert: district. Right. And so, and so shit, like, so rather than paying, you know, $200 per episode for editing, you know, it's more cost-effective for me to sit down and just do this shit myself, and then I can do as many revisions as I want.

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[00:04:16] Yeah. And time

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[00:04:17] DeVannon Hubert: Time is money. Yeah, yeah. Is so, but it's just so unfortunate because so many people don't get started cause it's overwhelming or they don't have the money to do it. And I love, I love pod match a lot because. Sanfilippo who's the owner creator of it is big on community and bringing us all together so we can help each other.

[:

[00:04:55] When COVID started you, you had that lack of community. So you created a ramble by the [00:05:00] river to take that place. And so it was all about community. I'm gonna be quiet now because you're the host and not me.

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[00:05:38] DeVannon Hubert: My bed fall from it. He was a pastor. No, he's like a deacon in church now. Now my, my, my closest mentor was my pastor of

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[00:05:59] DeVannon Hubert: [00:06:00] Oh, you're referring to when I was a worship leader in a kid's teacher at Lakewood church in Houston, Texas, and then I got thrown out for being LGBTQ. Yeah, that would be the strife.

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[00:06:19] That was a, they didn't want the kids to know that a sinner like me was, you know, still trying to teach them things. I really don't know the point of it actually, but it hurt me pretty bad. And the pastor was cool about it too. He was, he was really trying to do what he thought was right. And it says, it says in the Bible to not get divorced, I guess.

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[00:06:44] DeVannon Hubert: I don't going to say to that pastor, fuck you. And um, because the thing about it is it's very, very arrogant. And in look when you kick somebody out of a ministry or a volunteer thing that they were doing.[00:07:00]

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[00:07:17] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. It, it really did shake out that way. I I've been back since, so you're probably right. Do you still go to any church? I don't. And it is something that a lot of the time, I don't think about it a lot, but every once in a while I remember I have some memories about my own childhood and the church, and there were some really good memories.

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[00:08:11] But I feel like there are, there have been many instances throughout history where certain groups, mostly religious have come in and taken advantage of that need for human connection and that need for community. And they've kind of used it to leverage. As a way to control people. And I don't want to be a victim of that.

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[00:08:48] We're not just regular animals. We're, we're a little something extra, but, um, do you still have a relationship with any kind of religious? I don't even want to say just the church [00:09:00] specifically, but are you still a religious or spiritual person?

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[00:09:12] And so, you know, we are incredible people and we deserve respect and better treatment than what we receive at most churches. And so I don't currently attend and that really started because of the coronavirus. But before that I had found a university Presbyterian. Church, which is here at LSU, at Louisiana state university, which is a gay affirming church.

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[00:09:55] And so for me, myself, no. And even though I could [00:10:00] wear a mask and go, I just don't, I don't miss it. I don't miss it because God is here with me and I can study. And to me the most valuable time in my, in my spiritual walk is my alone time with God, not when I'm around other people. And so if I have to choose the one or sacrifice to other.

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[00:10:38] And that was right when I stopped, I was like, okay. And everybody, other than all my classmates were like, nodding their head in agreement. I was like, no, no, it sounds like the golden compass. Then they wouldn't give them a second. A thief will because the golden compass is all about church control and stuff like that.

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[00:11:26] And so we do need to cater to our souls in some type of way, because if you don't, then you'll be out of balance and then you end up with a lot of problems in your life. And you're thinking that it's coming from. A million different ways and really it's a spiritual element that you may have. And so I learned a lot about that when I was getting my hypnotherapy certification and training, how problems can present themselves with a root cause can be in some unseen part of us, be it, the mine, the soul, or the spirit.

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[00:12:12] So he's not going to kill Tweety bird. It's all just like a big joke, but there's a lot of science behind it. And a lot of really very real results. Could you tell us a little

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[00:12:20] DeVannon Hubert: about that? Oh, I just want to say that Tweety bird is a little bitch and he had it coming. We all know it. We all know it. I've got two cats and they can, I don't care what the fuck they do to Tweety bird.

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[00:12:44] Jeff Nesbitt: Like

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[00:12:44] Jeff Nesbitt: Mesmer, the guy who started mesmerizing people.

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[00:12:56] A lot of the principles and the concepts transition over into [00:13:00] actual medical practice, So the guys up there on stage, when you go in there, everything's over the top and he's doing all of this stuff. , and that is to hypnotize people, to make them so overwhelmed with what's going on, that they become receptive to whatever his suggestions are.

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[00:13:41] You, the, the therapist is going to use different modalities and techniques to overwhelm your conscious mind, which I believe is 12% of your brain. And the other 80% is like subconscious. And which is your critical mind. So, so like when you go to a movie, for instance, you're in a state of hypnosis, why are you in a state of [00:14:00] hypnosis?

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[00:14:19] He going to get you, you're going to get you. And we allow ourselves to buy into this fantasy. For the two hours that were in the theater and we get out of there and we got all kinds of reactions and we're arguing with our friends and everything that we know is not real, but what basically

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[00:14:35] DeVannon Hubert: the woods, right.

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[00:14:59] So [00:15:00] therefore it shuts down altogether and then therefore it lets us receive what we're seeing. And so when you come into a hypnotherapy session, we're going to use sounds and movements and things like that. And then we're going to take you into like deep sleep. And then what we're going to do is speak back to you when you're in hypnosis, which means like you're still conscious.

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[00:15:45] So you can trust. All right. It's all about trust. Like there's probably only one person. I would let him size me. So

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[00:16:10] I loved learning about it. If I was somebody I really trust. I feel like I could let go. But is there a certain point where you have to kind of choose if you're being hypnotized, almost like when all that stuff is happening in your prefrontal cortex and your executive control is like trying to, filter through everything and decide what to focus on.

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[00:16:43] DeVannon Hubert: No, that's, that's a myth that they bunk, you know, at the beginning of training because we all go to movies and watch things and we choose to believe it.

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[00:16:54] Jeff Nesbitt: kind of, you have to let them hypnotize you. Right?

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[00:17:08] Strange, there's no such thing as infinity stones, you know, you would be filtering out everything that just is not reality every second of the day. So absolutely everybody on some level is willing to, to bind to a fantasy every now and then. , and so it doesn't work that way. Now there's different techniques, different ways to hypnotize different people.

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[00:17:54] And so people are examined to see where they fall on that scale to see the best way to hypnotize them before [00:18:00] anything ever gets started. So there's a whole science and a math and a process behind all that. So it's a very

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[00:18:07] DeVannon Hubert: Oh, absolutely. The first, the first session. You know, research, getting into what the person's there for, to seeing if, if it's they're, you know, really a good fit for it and everything like that, , it's absolutely personal.

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[00:18:29] Jeff Nesbitt: And have you heard anything about the like chemical assisted hypnotherapy? I don't even know if that exists, but I know there's a lot of research right now on psilocybin and LSD and, and MDM and these different kinds of, chemical compounds that are traditionally used as recreational drugs.

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[00:18:58] DeVannon Hubert: I think it might be [00:19:00] cool, but I it's, from what I've heard, everything like that might be in its beginning stages.

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[00:19:34] Because it's not like you can go everywhere and get fat, you know, like if you're out in California yeah. Here in Baton Rouge, no, you know, hidden the therapy itself is too new to be in my opinion, to be infusing even more new stuff into it. Maybe 50 years from now, we'll see, oh God, hopefully that didn't take that down long.

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[00:19:59] DeVannon Hubert: [00:20:00] but you know, when we go to church and stuff like that, where you're in a state of hypnosis there too, because they use the same thing, like hypnosis starts from the office set up, man. So like, like they hit the stage hypnotists in Vegas.

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[00:20:29] Therefore you're, you're intimidated by it. You feel inferior to it and therefore vulnerable to it.

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[00:20:36] DeVannon Hubert: Blinded by jargon and overwhelmed by all. This is going on. Look at that crazy Torah twisty mustache that huge has the KP gown and everything like that. So we go into church. Wow. They're up there on the pedestal, those huge the Elizabethan king and queen chairs, the Pope everyone's setting in, you know, all of this is going on.

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[00:21:02] Jeff Nesbitt: Like when you go to a Catholic mass and they're wearing like these old guys in dresses with the smokey things, speaking Latin and stuff, I grew up in church.

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[00:21:29] All of a sudden he leaves comes back in a big elaborate gown, , with a funny hat and he's speaking a different language. I'm like, okay, the show has started. What, what is this? Like? I just, it was bizarre. I'd never see, every church is a little different. And uh, what you're saying about it being a mass hypnosis is totally right.

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[00:22:03] It's on YouTube and it's in German. And you can feel the energy that's in that crowd, just from, just from watching their body language and seeing like them interacting with this charismatic leader who they didn't realize at the time was a mass murdering crazy fuck. But they are just seeing his energy and like that he's saying these things that he's going to protect them and that they're going to, you know, get all these parasitic forces that are attacking them are going to get wiped out and like turns this horrible message of death and hatred into this thing.

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[00:22:53] DeVannon Hubert: Yeah.

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[00:23:14] Ho however you said it is not to be hiding sheep's clothing. You don't know that it may be Hitler. It may be your local priests. There may be some televangelists on TV, , you know, we've got to reactivate our critical mind when it comes to that, because we should not turn trust our minds to preachers either.

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[00:23:51] So I'll go there. I should have like gotten psychological help because I've realized how traumatized I was by that. And then [00:24:00] went and found an affirming church. I don't even think I knew about gay affirming churches at the time.

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[00:24:09] DeVannon Hubert: Oh no, that's a huge, huge, it's a larger movement. Go there. I just didn't know because you know, I was coming from the south where it's such things aren't spoken of. Then I went to the military and I was 17. And when I got out, I was basically right at Lakewood church in Houston, Texas. So I didn't go and look into any of this stuff because I didn't feel like I needed to.

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[00:24:32] Jeff Nesbitt: So are you in the military during don't ask? Don't tell. Yep. So also not spoken of there literally there's a policy for it.

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[00:24:50] I heard the village people right in the Navy, in the Navy. Yeah. Navy. And, uh, I was in the air force, but I'm [00:25:00] telling me what a whole lot of semen being forwarded all around.

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[00:25:11] DeVannon Hubert: oh, from day one, even basic training people.

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[00:25:32] And you know, Just from the beginning. I mean, there's just, there's just so much gay shit going on, but it stifled us. We couldn't get married, you know? So I became a hoe, you know, it's not that I didn't want a relationship, but then I know I'm I have to relocate. So then I just turned into a total slut and, um, and then when I did get picked on, it's not like I could go tell anyone or get help, you know?

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[00:26:06] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. So when did you know that you were gay?

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[00:26:12] Cause you know, my dad had like really hot friends then, you know, my brother, you know us know it as men, and honestly, , kind of girls too, from the beginning, , I know some people tried to say, it's a choice. That's just foolishness because no angel flies down here and goes, okay, well, will it be straight or gay to pick?

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[00:26:34] DeVannon Hubert: it's like, you discover yourself like your favorite color, your favorite food, you just try shit. And then whatever you keep coming back to one day, it clicks, this must be my favorite or preference. But in that stuff is pre-programmed in your DNA.

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[00:27:03] Jeff Nesbitt: So it's not a choice, but it's also not just a switch in your body or in your brain or anything like that.

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[00:27:17] DeVannon Hubert: pretty much. and look, I tried to get rid of the gayness like that, like so many. Uh, you know, I hate it myself, you know, how could I not, you know, everybody, before I learned to think for myself, everybody's ever said anything about it said it was negative.

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[00:27:52] Just like my counterparts who have gone and married women had a couple of children and then they're like 20 years later, you know, I'm still getting their mind. [00:28:00] You know, oops. Let's just, let's just have tea girl. And so, yeah. And, uh, and the women are usually really good at sports about that. I would have burned some shit down, but,

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[00:28:12] It's like, ah, okay.

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[00:28:35] And you might find the most flamboyant queen who is not a gold star gay. And while he had sex with women could be many reasons it's great. Oh, it is great. I mean, vagina is delicious. It's nutritious. I've tasted it, you know, as preferred Dick because it's great too.

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[00:29:16] And no matter how much I prayed and fasted and did all this, nothing ever moved and the Lord never told me anything was wrong with me. And so how does the Lord speak to us in different ways, an inner voice? It can be an audible voice with me. I'm a dreamer. I've been a gifted dreamer since I was about four or five.

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[00:29:48] Jeff Nesbitt: a question, I, sorry to cut you off, but I, this is something I'm insanely interested in is dreams and especially prophetic dreams.

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[00:30:13] Or am I just remembering a dream? Because I had this experience and it's kind of a mixed with deja VU, but I've also noticed that the more I talk about it, the more it happens. And so like, , I've had dreams that I had recurrent for a decade and then it happened

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[00:30:59] [00:31:00] It was bizarre. Like, do you have, uh, do you notice that the more you think about stuff like that and the more attention you give to those kinds of, I don't even want to call it paranormal because that's got so much baggage, but just kind of like extra stuff that it happens more often.

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[00:31:21] Okay. And so, and I'm going to say this here, just because the church was through with you doesn't mean that God was through with you. Okay. So your gifting, didn't start with the church that kicked you out and didn't end with them either. And so, and then the Bible tells us to stir up the gift that is in us.

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[00:31:59] It [00:32:00] depends on how your gift operates with you. So that sounds like that with you, with me with a dreaming, I'm just, I'm just a very, strong dreamer just naturally that way. Like I breathe every time I nod off I dream. So what you're having, it sounds like to me is a mixture of like prophetic dreams and premonitions and premonitions are kind of like that deja vu feeling like I'm been here before and as it's happening in real time, you already know what's going to happen as though you've already been there. But at the same time, it feels like you have not been there. That's the feeling, but all of that, all of that is still of the Lord dealing with. Our minds and our spirits to let us know that he understands what has been, what he is and what's going to be because true prophecy, true prophecy, and my spiritual mentor, my pastor was a fairly strong prophetess.

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[00:33:10] And so that's how come you're able to see something that many years in advance and it happened because God knows exactly where we're going to be down to the second. And so I think that's very awesome, the way that your gift is operating in you like that. And I'd encourage you to pray for the interpretation of your dreams, until you begin to understand more until that time comes you can use websites like, oh, dream moods.com.

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[00:33:48] That's the one thing that I do not agree with with hypnosis. I think that it can be both, but from what you're saying, there's no way your subconscious in and of itself can tell you in 10 years, what's going to happen. [00:34:00] I would say that that's the Lord, but you know, how do you feel about your own gift

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[00:34:37] And that's, that's what I think God is, is, is this collective energy that is in everything and it's in all of us and we can access it if we know how it, but it takes work and practice and effort. And that's what people are doing in most major religions when they get really deep. And, and they're focused on the inner portion of, of it, the spiritual portion and the soul of, of their own [00:35:00] experience and not so much on the social aspect of who brought what to the potluck and whose dress looks good on Sunday.

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[00:35:28] I feel like that's some days I rely very much on my connection with God

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[00:35:57] This is what we're doing here. This is what we are and [00:36:00] who we are. And I've never been comfortable doing that. I think that everybody who's come along up to this point has done what they can to take the information they had and kind of synthesize it into this view of reality. And I think that there's no reason why every new crop of humans can't do that same thing.

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[00:36:39] and I don't know if that happens after death or an, I, I hope it does. That's probably wishful thinking, but I think that , I really don't know. I just, I think that everybody has access to these gifts in different quantities.

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[00:36:58] DeVannon Hubert: Um, and so let the mystery [00:37:00] remain, uh, because that, that drive to learn and to search and to seek is what keeps us alive. It keeps us going, it keeps us wanting to, to grow and, you know, not everybody is going to be a Christian. I appreciate that.

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[00:37:38] And so I really like, , going down there to hang out with them, although I am a believer in Jesus Christ, but I love hanging out with Buddhist people. I don't look at them as people who are going to go to hell. I don't look at them as people who are less than me, I don't look at them like they should not be worshiping Buddha.

[:

[00:38:17] So what you were just saying is basically not taking somebody else's beliefs or supposedly research at face value, and engrafting that into your life, you know, without vetting it and looking into it for yourself, which is what I constantly preach to people is to stop believing preachers and to look into things for yourself.

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[00:38:47] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. And I think a lot of religious professionals are feel very challenged by that point of view because they think that their job is to kind of.

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[00:39:07] DeVannon Hubert: Well, that's a good question that you pose right there in a religious setting. You need to have both, but more than good. You need to have fair unemotionally attached and truly objective questions and answers.

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[00:39:42] You know, that ain't the same thing, you know? And so then their response was just, don't do it now. And see, I had a good fair question, but, but the response was not good and fair. so, and it's all about what you were saying. They want to dominate and control, [00:40:00] like what I told you that what they flat out said in seminary, , to me before I gave them the middle finger until then they go fuck themselves.

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[00:40:26] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. That's actually a question I had here about drugs and alcohol to a lot of people sobriety, it's an all or nothing proposition. especially with 12 step programs and things like that, where people are very much not in control of their own choices, because they were either unable to, or unwilling to make the correct choices in the past.

[:

[00:41:06] I think that it's, it's definitely good, but I think a lot of people are not in that situation. And there are situations where, like you said, just now, like if you have a cocktail, when you're trying to, maybe you're trying to witness to people who knows, maybe your trying, maybe you're with a group of people and you're, you could actually help these people to see a good example.

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[00:41:57] DeVannon Hubert: Oh, I have done that before. No, [00:42:00] no. I just sucked Dick's for free because I love sucking dick.. But to answer your that's your question, man. Abso-fuckin-lutely! Because here's the thing. I had a dream a long time ago, back when I was first called when I was like four or five.

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[00:42:43] Jeff Nesbitt: Sometimes they'll make it better. You might want to worship Jesus more.

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[00:43:03] I think so. Look, I, I, when we were getting, when we get done with this interview, I've got my wine already air rating on my cocktail table, and that's going to be my reward. I'm a wine guy. Are you a connoisseur? If it was my last drink is going to be the first thing Jesus started with is going to be some red, red wine.

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[00:43:47] So I do not think that once an addict, always an addict, once you've always had a problem, you always have to have a problem. And this is the reason why, you know, I'm just, I want to go through these 12 steps one time, this, because it [00:44:00] has been beneficial, but I can tell that I'm not going to want to do it after the 12 steps after completing it once.

[:

[00:44:28] And these programs put the fear of like, whatever your intentions are and they into you. And so they want you to keep re re re recertifying to yourself that if you have another drug or another drink, you're going to end up back on the street. And there's no other way. Because they don't trust you do better.

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[00:45:05] And so the answer that I got was the healing part is the fact that I can be around drugs but not use them and not go completely off to the races as they say. But I think it depends on you as a quote into your faith, be it onto and what a lot of us do, right. You have like a lot of sober time, you know, we might go out and try a drug or two and see if it really gets to be that wild.

[:

[00:45:44] And so, but I just don't enjoy it anymore, just organically just for what it is. And So I chose not to pursue it. I don't think it's wrong to do drugs. but for me, it's just, that's just not who I am anymore, but I don't want,

[:

[00:46:05] Is there any chance that you would have maybe just got high a little and then gone to work or gone to see your friends or whatever? I think a lot of what drives addiction is bad environments. People who are not living a life that they're happy with, or that's not providing to them what they need to feel whole.

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[00:46:40] And it was by Dr. Carl Hart, I think. And it was really kind of eye-opening about how it looks at the drug problem in our country and the particular, the opioid epidemic. And he points out a lot of really useful pieces of information about socioeconomic status in some of these [00:47:00] really hard hit areas.

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[00:47:11] DeVannon Hubert: Right? , well, sure. And that's what that part of the post, what sobriety movement I do.

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[00:47:34] Okay, my girlfriend wouldn't be. So I'm going to go shoot up some cocaine tonight, you know, and it can happen so quick that you don't realize that now that's two different, that's two different things there. And so in that particular situation, a person might want to go into some sort of recovery to be sure and get themselves sorted out.

[:

[00:48:11] And then you can turn into an addict or somebody who, who, who misuses drugs, whereas you weren't one before, but you know, we like dangerous things, right? So drugs has that sort of like cutting that double edge sword and is to it. You know, some people like rollercoaster. Some people like to try to cook the books at fortune 500 companies.

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[00:48:52] And I'm like, no, that's not what relapse is to me. You're not going to tell me what it means, the relapse. And so you can make suggestions, [00:49:00] but you're not going to, to make up my mind for me. And so this has given rise to harm reduction, which is a new movement now. And then in harm reduction, it's like a step-down program.

[:

[00:49:28] And then we'll step you down from there. So it's, so that's harm reduction. That's a thing that they're doing now, you know, in medical facility, you know, it's a medical treatment,

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[00:49:42] DeVannon Hubert: Yes. All of that plays into that because you're providing people a clean out. There's the same people who counselors, who would go out and do harm reduction. I mean, do harm reduction therapy or the same sort of people where you're going to find handing out clean needles and stuff like that. Cause this is not a condemnation of what people are [00:50:00] doing.

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[00:50:16] So now what's the safest way that we can do And then if you feel like that you've gotten out of hand with it, then how can we slowly wean you off of it over time instead of a shock of stock today, you know, it's another option for people, you know it, right? And

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[00:50:42] And if they decide drugs is not that, then they're going to impose that on the populous. And that doesn't really seem to work because people have their own intrinsic morality and drugs. Don't violate it for many people.

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[00:51:07] And so like, like we were saying earlier, you know, your spirit and your soul is a third of who you are, you know, and if you're not catering to that in some sort of conscientious direct, intentional way, they're going to be hard for you to really manage yourself. And you don't have to be a Christian, but you need to be doing so that you can know when you're getting out of line stuff like that.

[:

[00:52:04] So the program tell is telling you what to think about this, but anybody with a fucking brain knows that fucking coffee and cigarettes are mood and mind altering substances. So how in the hell are you going to say that them two things are good, but then meth and cocaine are the devil. When you can't wake up without fucking coffee and you know that you want cigarettes to relax you and

[:

[00:52:31] It's a food, but it's also definitely a drug. It can be if you use it wrong or sex sex. I mean, I know there's sex, holics anonymous, sex and love addicts. Uh, but all these things that are able to change how you feel in the moment and able to affect your decision making process, which is going to change how you feel in subsequent moments.

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[00:52:53] DeVannon Hubert: They are, are they? They are, and it's done. You know, In a very sneaky way, but you know, sugar, [00:53:00] is infused into so much stuff. Uh, sodas, you know, it's the carbonation that's two body, you know, a lot of times it's craving because there there's there's healing and carbonation.

[:

[00:53:29] And so I see those are like cute addictions candy. Yeah. You know, people like to buy a bunch of guns and shit lights, everyone.

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[00:53:52] Like, what the hell are you going to do with all those guns

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[00:53:59] Jeff Nesbitt: you [00:54:00] know,

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[00:54:20] You know, they were all addicted to something. They could be addicted to gossip, drama, you know, so much amen. So much amen. On a Tuesday morning and, um, so many, so much stuff out there.

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[00:54:45] I'm saying, would he be in support of the government regulating it??

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[00:55:06] But that is not his way. And so authority is not to be used. Forcibly is to be used in a loving, guiding way. And you got to let people go through what they're going to go through. And so no, he wouldn't tell people to not go and get an abortion. He would just be quiet and let them take their course.

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[00:55:42] Now. Those are the people who don't want her to get an abortion are all the same people who don't want black people to go out and vote, , or don't care people black or white or other are getting shot by police, , in the street. So it's not about care for an unborn child because they don't give a damn about the humans that are with us.

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[00:56:03] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah, agree . I think that certain issues just seem to really attract that kind of. Virulent hate it's for the people who have the opposing view. And it seems to be abortion is one of them and gay rights, gay marriage.

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[00:56:34] DeVannon Hubert: He, he doesn't, but the thing is when people read through the Bible, , they don't care to mention or own up to the fact that it's, uh, it's not our Bible. You know, it came from the middle east that it was written for the Israelites.

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[00:57:11] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. It's my understanding that the old Testament is

[:

[00:57:15] Jeff Nesbitt: all right. I'm back.

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[00:57:20] Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, anyway, what I was saying, um, so it was always my understanding that the old Testament of the Bible is like God's promise to the Jewish people and like the story of how Christ came to be. And then the new Testament is like the story of Christ's life as a human and then the formation of the church following that.

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[00:57:47] DeVannon Hubert: I would say it's all one big mind of God, and this is the whole thing. There's no really one way to say what it is or what it is. And too much, you know, everybody can kind of go through there and draw their own conclusions. the problems we get into is [00:58:00] when one person thinks that their way has to be the only way and everybody else is wrong.

[:

[00:58:29] But the Lord did that because of what was going on in the time with them being nomads in a land, around a bunch of nations, and he didn't want them to act like them. And so in the new Testament, and when we get into like stuff about, you know, don't be like CVS or, or to eat that, which are abominable or whatever, those that's not Jesus talking.

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[00:59:04] But like on his job,

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[00:59:07] DeVannon Hubert: Christian, right. he was a Christian. I've never heard it put that way, but that is the most accurate. He punted them down, he persecuted and then he killed them. because the thing, yeah. people were not did just because Jesus came and died and bled on the cross, the people who are the nation of Israel not just want to allow Gentiles people who are not, who are outside of the nation of Israel in.

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[00:59:52] Another one. Yeah. That's what the books book of acts is about the beginnings of the church and the fight that they had, you know, warring to [01:00:00] incorporate and enforce the acceptance Gentiles or so much about what was going on with them back then. But yeah, those same, like in Leviticus 18, where they're saying, you know, thou shall not lie with man and what mankind, well, you know, and those same books, it says things like if a woman is menstrating, she needs to go be by herself.

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[01:00:35] Jeff Nesbitt: exactly.

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[01:00:40] DeVannon Hubert: fair. It's in the Bible. And so then in the whole divorce thing, Jesus did say not to get divorced unless it is for infidelity. And I don't care if somebody got divorced or infidelity or not, I don't care.

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[01:01:09] Jeff Nesbitt: So it probably also, it had to do with the fact that they wanted to propagate the church.

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[01:01:32] DeVannon Hubert: it's not possible that it, it had to, because the only person who I would say has ever had a perfect ministry would be Jesus.

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[01:01:53] Jeff Nesbitt: my favorite Bible story about Jesus is when he went in the church and all the Pharisees are in there with [01:02:00] their money tables and he goes in there just fucking flips the tables and he's screaming at them and kick them all out. Cause it really shows that like humans that's part of us, part of us is the rat and like the, that righteous anger.

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[01:02:17] DeVannon Hubert: Well, I liked the fact that you went in there and acted a damn fool. Sometimes you just got to slap a bitch across the face. He didn't do that, but I bet he did.

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[01:02:55] I wouldn't know either way. He's a killer actor, but he said in there, if you don't like the way [01:03:00] the table is set, if you don't like the way some shit is going on in your life and you just flip that motherfucking bitch. anyway, it reminded me of that.

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[01:03:10] DeVannon Hubert: So like my favorite story that reminded, tells us about how we are to treat people in the live.

[:

[01:03:40] And then he was an in and he was like, you know, a fuck. And he couldn't go back and change anything. Like, Nope. He was like, if they didn't listen to the profits have gone before then they won't hear you either. And I love the way how, how the Lord claps back back at rich people. And, , if people who have authority, I believe that that ties in the [01:04:00] people who run churches and stuff like that.

[:

[01:04:20] And I love that story because it's telling people who have authority, over people to watch how the fuck you treat them, because that is going to come back on you one day. Although it says in the Bible, he enjoyed all his riches while he lived. And it's very, short-sighted when I see people fighting the gays fighting over abortion rights, fighting for political power, sucking Donald Trump's a Dick or whatever it was.

[:

[01:05:08] Just to have position in power on this earth, but when you die, none of that will follow you, you know, angels and demons alive. Don't give a fuck about money and guns, you know, that's human shit. So like, what does that get you? What credit does that get you? What kind of spiritual currency to that build up for you to fight over stuff like that in this earth?

[:

[01:05:55] And he told them all about themselves and how they are the people who kill the prophets [01:06:00] and they are the worst of us. So Steven will be like me today telling you no, you're Joel O'Steen you're Joyce Meyer. You're TD Jakes. No y'all are hurting people. Y'all are not as, as righteous as you think, you know, you are the problem.

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[01:06:34] They said, when he spoke, he had the face of like, it was like a face of an angel when he talked to them and they could care less because they were so they stopped their ears at what he was saying. And they took him out. And when they stoned him, it was at the feet of Saul. Who's also known as Paul, where they laid him at.

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[01:07:08] You know, it's the same thing again and again, and each generation.

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[01:07:31] I don't want to live in the woods and eat bugs, like, but he was doing what he was called to do by God. And do you ever feel like sometimes you're going to have to be a weirdo living in the woods, eaten bugs metaphorically, obviously, hopefully. And, or just to do what you're called to do, or are you pretty comfortable in your skin and in your

[:

[01:07:51] The thing that I'm comfortable in my skin and in my calling, because it is my calling, when you're called to do something, you're not gonna feel out of [01:08:00] place unless you try to rush and do it before God's ready for you to do it. But if you wait for him and you don't know from the time you receive your calling to the time, it's time for you to do it could be 10, 20, 30 years.

[:

[01:08:28] I think he was using honey. He was a fancy bitch and I love it, but I wouldn't fill out a place. I would imagine if I were out there in the woods, there would be other people out there in the woods too, chasing their callings at this point. But when you step into the community, and I know why you're asking that because there are those who say, the say, to righteousness with wide is the road that leads to death.

[:

[01:09:14] So I'm like, Hey, get vaccinated. And people are like, well, no, Jesus will protect me. I don't need to get the vaccine. You know, it's stuff like that. Then that's the only time I feel like alone. I'm like, I know I'm not the only intelligent person on this planet.

[:

[01:09:49] And I try to talk to people about things that other people won't talk to them about now, it can seem lonely, but when I don't compare my life to [01:10:00] whatever it is that television in the popular church has told me, it's supposed to be. But I think about it just by itself for the value that it is, then it doesn't seem lonely anymore.

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[01:10:24] DeVannon Hubert: All of it. And like my evangelist evangelist Nelson, my, my leader would, she told me that a preacher is going to be either really strong or no in

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[01:10:35] Could you

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[01:10:51] Preachers don't apologize. They don't say they're sorry. So what they'll say is something like, um, I don't preach this the way I used to. So what [01:11:00] they're saying is this certain scripture or lesson I've changed my mind about it because I was wrong, but they're just going to say I don't preach it the way I used to and not.

[:

[01:11:24] And if they get weak and get overthrown with gluttony and greed and lust, unless it goes beyond physical attraction, it could be anything that you would just want to damn much of. And, um, so much, um, they're not gonna necessarily realize that they've gone off track. So they may show up to church everyday on the Sunday, Mary say a preacher might be married.

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[01:12:09] Cool with it. The Jesus jets, So then yeah, they're, they're overthrown by, I don't give a fuck who you are. You love money. You do, you love power. You do gives you more choices and try to act like you don't try to act like you're just as humble servant who doesn't better. I, $50 million Bitch, please. You do. And so, and, but see, it's so subtle and it, they train and they get manipulated and deceived by before they realize it.

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[01:12:38] Jeff Nesbitt: I think so, too. And like Jesus said that it's easier to pass a camel through the head of a needle than to get a rich person into the kingdom of heaven. And when I was a kid, like I grew up pretty poor. And when I was a kid, that little scripture scared the fuck out of me because I was like, nah, cause I, I can't be poor forever.

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[01:13:23] I don't think so. Cause it gives you power to do good as well.

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[01:13:42] And so with this you got to have it in perspective, understand that the Lord is the most important thing, and don't become a worshiper of the money. But see, the thing is, money is also the root of all evil money is like an addiction or like a drug. And if you don't manage, it is going to manage [01:14:00] you.

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[01:14:14] People have had mental breakdowns, their family have gotten on the nerves. They did not establish boundaries. Some even don't know where they're asking for Yeah.

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[01:14:24] DeVannon Hubert: Right. Like a lot of horror stories. Like they go, they burn through it in a relatively short amount of time or they get bad and the drugs end up in jail or whatever the case may be.

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[01:14:57] So go on ahead and make you a million. I'm going

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[01:15:09] DeVannon Hubert: Absolutely. We can do whatever gear you want to.

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[01:15:21] and it's really not expensive to podcasts. I mean, my podcast host is like 20 bucks a month. And the services I use for editing are probably around the same and music is probably around the same. So it's like 60 to a hundred dollars a month. Plus the time it takes to edit it and produce it. But what are your plans as far as making your podcasts and your brand a business?

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[01:15:50] DeVannon Hubert: My business model for monetizing. My podcast is a monthly membership and it was 3 99 a month. I'm lowering it to 2 99 a month. And [01:16:00] what it is, it's like, so a person like a shortened version of the episode for free, but if somebody wants the full extended one, then they would need to subscribe.

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[01:16:24] So I'm open to the back in the future. But, and then I'm also going to add a thing to my website where a person can go and just leave a one-time donation if they want to. And, um, which that could be embedded into your website very easily. Something like that, just a simple donation. Hey, I love it. Let me just support you.

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[01:16:56] Like there's a resource phase on page on there. I'm building out a blog. I [01:17:00] want to do a blog and you know, so I'm going to have like all this stuff. And then hopefully for $2 and 99 cents a month, people would choose to support the work or they can do a one-time donation. Um, I believe that if I provide a whole lot of value that, and just let people do, if they want, if they want to, then they will.

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[01:17:38] People were looking at me like, really like, yes, this is how, yes, this is how we're running. This. I'm the president of the booster club. And th and we're boosting morale and we're making money. We're not charging anyone, anything. We're just going to do the service. And some people gave 20 most people average five.

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[01:18:05] Jeff Nesbitt: And plus it allows you to focus on the quality of your content instead of worrying about connecting with advertisers and making sure that you're trying to sling some products that are actually going to provide some value to your listeners. That's a lot of work just managing that. And you're constantly doing emails and writing your show pitches to advertisements, things like things like that.

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[01:18:33] DeVannon Hubert: What I understand as your, as your show grows, people will come and find you you won't really have to go and look for them for what I, from what I've been told.

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[01:19:08] And so you really want to wait towards the end of the year. Is your book on political? Does your book have police though?

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[01:19:44] So, I mean, since there was no longer a separation of church and state as it was originally intended, yeah. I guess it does actually have some political tone. And so I am writing a book, I think you should too. I think anybody who's been kicked out of a church [01:20:00] should write a book because the emotional trauma that follows is something that now we've seen the interviews with people on the news who have said it, but we, there really didn't get down and dirty into what happened to them after.

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[01:20:26] Jeff Nesbitt: excited to hear about what we straight white men have to say these days,

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[01:20:30] DeVannon Hubert: you know yeah. Well, sex drugs and Jesus also, um, as a memoir of self destruction and resurrection. Thank you. Thank you. I labored over it. I really, really did arms coming up with titles for stuff. It is all the businesses and everything is that title, man, because you understand that it's going to be tied to your image and your name and, and you know how, you know, you know, as a male, like your image and your name is everything.

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[01:21:15] And I don't feel like that. It's for me to just sit quietly and live out the rest of my days and not be transparent about what happened. So we're going to talk about me being a slut, getting HIV and hepatitis B, being homeless on the street, getting kicked out of church, becoming addicted to drugs, playing the game by the game.

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[01:21:54] And so they were just jealous of me because I was great at sales, I think from having been a military recruiter [01:22:00] and I knew customer service and I just provided value in the dope things game. This is a business. If business was just fucking business and I didn't cut it step on it or dilute the drugs, I just gave people what they fucking asked for.

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[01:22:24] Jeff Nesbitt: you seem like you'd be a great drug dealer. You're personable. I wouldn't feel weird calling ya like a, you mean, you get hooked up with some pretty questionable people in that world.

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[01:22:37] DeVannon Hubert: And I would have, uh, delivered it to you in my white Mustang, as I used to do,

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[01:22:54] DeVannon Hubert: Okay. So I found out I was HIV positive, , on December 31st, the year [01:23:00] 2011. So it'll be the 10 year anniversary this December 31st. Yes. That's new year's Eve of the doctor I was dealing with was a total bitch and a bitch and a fucking asshole and fuck him wherever he is, because he left. He left my positive HIV diagnosis on a voicemail on new year's Eve.

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[01:23:26] Jeff Nesbitt: God, it had to have ruined your new year's Eve party.

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[01:23:40] And so I was like, let me just check this shit. And so I listened to it, then I like bawling my eyes out and cried mascara, everything running, but I didn't want my, I didn't want to ruin the night for my friends. And so I went back into F bar, this is where we're in Houston, Texas, and Montrose. And I was just partying with my friend.

[:

[01:24:15] And so I just figured that I would be dead in eight months. And so I was like, damn is my last new year's Eve. And then it just got worse from there. I tried to go back to work, then I kept crying and I was all depressed and shit. And it was just also very dramatic. And so then I just like stopped going.

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[01:24:47] Now, this was a different sort of trauma. I didn't understand it. And so I just closed off from everybody. So I should have embraced everybody, but I just became recluse. And then I got reckless with my [01:25:00] drug dealing so that I ended up in jail three, four days later for the first time, uh, in, um, in, and then after that, you know, it just spiraled.

[:

[01:25:28] And, um, and then, and so that, and that belief that I was going to die, took away my will to live. And so then therefore I became even less scrutinous of people. I just let anything go. I just started saying yes to everything, even more so than what I was. And then a couple months later, you know, the SWAT team came to rate me.

[:

[01:26:13] And so I'm thinking I'm not going to be here less than a year anyway, so fuck it. If you want to take the shit, take it. You know, I let people walk over me and all kinds of shit like that. During those days and times I had like, no, self-respect no self restraint, no boundaries, no nothing. I just threw everything out, almost like a

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[01:26:30] DeVannon Hubert: It was it was inevitable. And so I was like letting it happen slowly. And, um, I was a little relieved when the cops came. Now we're talking helicopters about 30, 40 men and face shields, semi-automatic rifles, Kevlar, Arvis, you know, canines for me.

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[01:27:21] I didn't want to go back home because I felt like I would God be ashamed and embarrassed because I failed, you know, my job has gone and, and got HIV. And , I had emotions related to HIV that I did not anticipate the guilt. I felt guilty. I felt contagious. , uh, you know, and I was a big dancer. I love to go out and dance. I would go to the club seven nights a week. That's why I moved to Montrose to the gay district. And he was until I could go to go to the club. And so in that half to like wreck my car, like I had done the other one. And so, um, but I felt ashamed and guilty and everything like that.

[:

[01:28:22] So

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[01:28:28] DeVannon Hubert: Yeah, in there somewhere. Nine-ish because I was in there. I don't know exactly. I was in jail from like September to Thanksgiving. So I don't know. At what point in that two month period, they had me go down to the infectious disease doctor.

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[01:28:41] Jeff Nesbitt: much got the diagnosis and then just decided it's done. And you're just going to go out with a bang.

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[01:28:52] Well, I have an extreme personality I've come to realize. And I really didn't think of myself as somebody who was like extra, who had an [01:29:00] extreme personality at the time for me, I was just being myself. But now in hindsight, now that I'm more aware of myself and this is why it's important for us to get our spirits and stuff aligned.

[:

[01:29:37] I stopped tithing, which I don't believe in tithing anymore because I have a whole different school of study and thought on that. And I just abandoned all things, God, which was a shame considering that I had way more history with him outside of Lakewood church than what I did at Lakewood church. I said never, ever done that.

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[01:30:23] Jeff Nesbitt: you think that's your family and they

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[01:30:26] Jeff Nesbitt: right.

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[01:30:45] So these drugs, all of a sudden seemed like a good solution.

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[01:31:00] Jeff Nesbitt: they kill more people than they save.

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[01:31:33] So even more so when I had a bunch of drugs in my system all the time, you know, I'll let them guys do with me wherever they want it to. And I was delighted to have them do it. Oh,

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[01:31:46] DeVannon Hubert: it really lowers your inhibitions, especially like meth, you know, which I eventually, that was the last thing I got into.

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[01:32:02] Jeff Nesbitt: weird. Have we have different drug baskets? Like you have your caffeine and tobacco over here, one basket, and then you have your, your party drugs, like the drugs that are acceptable by society, but still taboo, like, you know, MDMA or, or, you know, LSD.

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[01:32:30] They're tools. They're essentially tools.

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[01:32:48] Jeff was the bullshit that I cut out of my trap house and a trap house is where the fucking drug dealers hang out at for people who may not know what a trap house is.

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[01:32:58] DeVannon Hubert: house. So [01:33:00] I figured, you know, I figured they would. And so, um, but the, you know, the motherfuckers would come in there, like literally, trying to be like, you know, we don't fuck with heroin because they're just really fucked up.

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[01:33:28] You're

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[01:33:35] DeVannon Hubert: And so like, as I've got my meth pipe, I'm like, bitch, I don't care if you hear this, go do something. Yeah. So just, there's just no logic to it. But that prejudice and the desire for humans to want to judge somebody else to make themselves feel better is found in dope houses for the cocaine, telling the meth head that he really needs a straighten out his [01:34:00] fucking lights or the preacher.

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[01:34:09] Jeff Nesbitt: it that's just humanity. That's the dark, the dark part of our nature that will just eat its way into every aspect of life

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[01:34:56] You can just take pills forward. You can live a long life. But when something, [01:35:00] when you feel like your body's been invaded by a military of many parasites and you can't just get it out of you, even if you don't, you're not trying to hear all of that about how great it can be and all of that now, no, you really got to focus on your mental health.

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[01:35:37] You can take to prep. It's called prep to prep you so that you don't get it. If you couldn't come in contact with it. Um, so hopefully people are prepping, you know, out there for it and taking prep. But, um, but if you do get it, it's still not that simple. It's still a big deal. And why is that? Because of the way we have been mindfuck into believing [01:36:00] it is so the media, they always showing us the shriveled up people with aids back in like the nineties and stuff like that.

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[01:36:19] Jeff Nesbitt: Who's still to this day, a towering healthy looking strong man,

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[01:36:27] And, um, and we need more of us in the world. But the few success stories him, I think Mary J Blige,

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[01:36:45] DeVannon Hubert: Because I know, I know damn well, she got addicted to drugs.

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[01:36:52] DeVannon Hubert: Yeah. Um, yeah, definitely. I know it was her and it was that same [01:37:00] reaction, but you would think, oh, not marry anybody but married, you know, it's the, it's the, and I thought the same thing too, but, and people thought the same thing about me, probably for the drug dealer part, maybe the HIV part, because I was a loser, I was a loosey but, um, but you know, it could be our neighbor next door.

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[01:37:41] But you know, when our parents tried to act like they always have it together, I didn't feel like I could go to them. You know, that atmosphere was not created in my house. And you know, my friends, , all of us trying to be cute and trying to act like everything that's working, because we were trying to be more than what we were, you know?

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[01:38:14] I

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[01:38:30] I think that we're obligated. And by we, I mean, all of, all of humanity, all of the adult world is obligated to share those things with the next generation to help them prepare.

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[01:38:54] Jeff Nesbitt: I have a question about that, letting people be themselves.

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[01:39:35] Or should we stand up and say, no, that's not right. You need to change the way you are.

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[01:39:54] But even when I'm rebuking it a standing against it is to the benefit of somebody who is not of a strong [01:40:00] enough mind yet to not be influenced by people who were trying to change them. I am not trying to change Lindsay Graham, Donald Trump, Steve Mnuchin, Mitch McConnell special cases in this world.

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[01:40:34] Yes. Now I'm not about to ind graph somebody closely into my life who is anti LGBTQ. I at the alphabet mafia, that's what we are. Um, I'm not about to in graph them into my life because my people get killed and murdered every day because somebody don't think that we should be living the life that they think we're living.

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[01:41:16] Yeah. You know? And so, you know, that's like, you know, it's been done. so I, I established firm boundaries. I can, I can fuck with. people who think Being gay is a sin, but they also have that opinion about a thousand other things, but they don't think we're going to go to hell. They're just kind of like, God sees all Satan as the same.

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[01:41:46] progress? I think for that person, that it's a very neutral mentality to be in because they're not, hyperbolizing the homosexual movement, you know, like conservatives, they're just saying, this is a, a thing to me, like all these other things, [01:42:00] adultery or murder, but not one is greater than the other. Fuck it.

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[01:42:04] Jeff Nesbitt: the murders probably worse. I would say that murder is worse than being gay.

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[01:42:17] Jeff Nesbitt: know, but it seems to me that see, that feels like it's trivializing your existence and, and, and almost saying like, yeah, you're messed up, but I forgive you.

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[01:42:46] But at least they're drawing conclusions about many different things and not just the gay people. Yeah. What I'm saying, I'm saying I like it. I would prefer them to shut the fuck up about all of it. But, but most certainly not somebody who's against. It's not, it's not [01:43:00] safe. I don't trust people like that.

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[01:43:19] DeVannon Hubert: You can't come to the party. You think come to the key key. If you view, if you are against LGBTQ people, I don't, I don't believe gay people should go to churches that do not affirm our lifestyles. We should not support places financially. So fuck you. Chick-fil-A I don't need your greasy ass burger no way.

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[01:43:56] [01:44:00] it. So but the Lord would deal with them for all, all he would deal with all of them for all of their hypocrisy one day. But no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not, I'm not saying they're wrong. I'm saying that they are different. I don't want to cross into that territory because when I started tell somebody else that they're wrong, Jeff, that's when I can become a hypocrite in, in, in the Lord, talked a lot about hypocrisy.

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[01:44:41] You know, you're not, you're not going to get into heaven, being a HIPAA hypocrite. It's not going to work.

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[01:44:57] DeVannon Hubert: And like Madonna said, and , her song [01:45:00] Hollywood at the end, you know, it's, you know, she's bored with the concept of right and wrong.

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[01:45:22] And then a key key is as gay speak for like a house party or some shit like that. Okay. So you're not, you're not vaccinated and you want to come to the Kiki. No bitch. You know, at what point you become like a threat, like one guy who I deleted from Facebook, didn't understand why I did not like Trump.

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[01:46:04] And you really have to ask me why I'm not boating, but why I don't like Donald Trump, Billy. Like, I can't do anything with that. And you know, and that sort of person is going to come around me trying to be my friend, but you're going to vote for someone that you know wanna hurt my community. So see, therefore, that person is a danger to me because you're going to put people in office who's gone to try to hurt me and you know that they will.

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[01:46:49] Um, yeah, there was nobody I go, Hmm, let me see what I can stop y'all from doing, like when I got kicked out of church, it wasn't because I did anything. The [01:47:00] parents had started murmuring because of my style. Cause I wear like cowboy boots or like, you know, true religion jeans. They were like, my style was making them uncomfortable, you know, and shit like that.

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[01:47:26] Oh, , you're going to make your kids gay somehow. Yeah. I hadn't thought about it from that angle. Maybe back to rub off on the cages, they were just afraid of what they don't know. But the thing they are in my evangelists. I mean, then it was Nelson. My mentor said that people do not understand homosexuality and therefore they reject it and then they cause all these scenes and everything like that.

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[01:48:09] Like I was a heretic wish that would be kind of cool to be called a heretic. I don't know if you've seen that show shadowing bone on Netflix, but the heretic is this hot ass. Like bad-ass dude, all like wicked and Nima with the black magic and shit. And so, yeah, whatever. Yeah. It's got a bit

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[01:48:28] DeVannon Hubert: A fornicator. That's another term that church is used to control people.

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[01:48:40] DeVannon Hubert: It, it's fine. What message are you sending? You can't be perfect ever. So, so that means there are certain things that they want to isolate and pick apart.

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[01:49:05] So people when they feel good and fornicators having sex outside of marriage is not, I don't think it's a sin. I think it's smart. And people get that from there really isn't before indicating in the Bible really has more to do when people would worship other gods God's house cheated on with people would worship something and view them as the source of all their needs and comfort and safety.

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[01:49:43] Jeff Nesbitt: you, wouldn't be, I don't know why he would care all that. Right.

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[01:49:55] They just give them my body, that sort of thing. And so no. Does the [01:50:00] fornicating in the Bible had a lot to do with like temple worship idol were temple sex rituals for idol worship and stuff like that. And when you look at the full context of what's going on historically, and then at least back then, people who use the word fornicate to try to tell you, you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage.

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[01:50:31] Jeff Nesbitt: symbol symbols make a big difference in how people feel about things.

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[01:50:37] Well, De'vannon, I think we should probably wrap this up. This has been a great conversation. I'm really, happy with how this went. I'm excited about going on your show next week.

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[01:50:59] Jeff Nesbitt: All right. Well, thank you so [01:51:00] much. And I will talk to you next week have a good one.

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About the Podcast

Ramble by the River
with Jeff Nesbitt
Ramble-(verb)
1. walk for pleasure, typically without a definite route.
2. talk or write at length in a confused or inconsequential way.

Ramble by the River is about becoming the best human possible.

Join me, Jeff Nesbitt and my guests, as we discuss the blessing that is the human experience in the year 2021. No matter what 2020 brought you, I have some ideas about how to improve the way you see things, and subsequently the way you experience your own life. This show is loosely structured to allow for spontaneous growth into unexpected areas so it is hard to say what will pop up, but common topics will include: technology, culture, education, psychology, drugs, health/fitness, history, politics, investing, blockchain/cryptocurrencies, and many more!

What does it mean to be a person in 2021? Is there really a right and wrong way to do it? We live in a time unlike any other. How has our species changed to accommodate the world that we have so drastically altered? What defines our generation? Where are we going? What is coincidence? Is time a mental construction? What happens after death? Which Jenifer is better looking (Lopez or Anniston)?

Tune in to any one of our exciting upcoming episodes to hear a comedian, a New York Times Best-Selling author, a fancy artist, a plumber, the Mayor of a large urban metropolis, a cancer survivor, a Presidential candidate, Jeff's dad, a female bull-riding champion, the founder of a large non-profit charity organization, Elon Musk, a guarded but eventually lovable country musician, a homeless guy, a homeless woman, a commercial fisherman, a world-renowned photo-journalist, or Kanye West.

When you go on a ramble, you never know where you are going to end up. All you can do is strap-in and enjoy the ride!
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About your host

Profile picture for Jeff Nesbitt

Jeff Nesbitt

Jeff Nesbitt is a man of many interests. He is infinitely curious, brutally honest, and genuinely loves people. Jeff grew up in a small coastal community in the Pacific Northwest and after college he moved back to his hometown to start a family. When the Covid-19 crisis hit in 2020, regular social engagement was not an option, and Jeff realized that the missing ingredient in his life was human connection. So, like the fabled Noah and his Ark, Jeff started building a podcast studio without knowing what his show would actually be. Before the paint was even dry, Jeff start recording interviews with interesting friends, and Ramble by the River was born.