The Life of an Artist with Jacob Miller

Jacob Miller (Scarlet 2i2)

intro

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[00:00:04] I'm your host, Jeff Nesbitt. And we got another great show for you today. It is Saturday, July 30th, the year of our Lord 2022. And joining me on the podcast today is the great and powerful Jacob Miller.

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[00:00:39] Colton's good friend of mine, and he dropped by the studio just to shoot the breeze. We talked about life and love and quite a few interesting topics. So check that out. It's available at RamblebytheRiver.com dot com or. Any podcast player it's available everywhere. Go ahead and find it.

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[00:01:07] How about a little bit of news and current events? so this first one, actually it's the only one this week, but I thought it was pretty crazy. Saudi Arabia. We know Saudi Arabia, they're the people who have all the money. Right. They make all that, uh, money from oil, billions of dollars a day. I keep hearing that seems like a lot.

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[00:01:44] I know that's not a movie. It's a great wall, but you'll get it in a minute. Okay. We're just gonna play a clip to check this out [00:02:00] [00:03:00] Ooh, Ooh, Ooh. Pretty scary. That video is called Saudi Arabia's controversial mega city project the line, and let's see, it was posted by end gadget.

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[00:04:21] I don't think that sounds great. Save money and be energy independent. Oh, come on.

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[00:04:38] So that's all I've got for you today for news and current events, let's move on. I got to give a shout out to Wayne,

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[00:04:51] Welcome Wayne. Good to have ya.

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[00:04:57] You've probably found this episode through a free [00:05:00] service like apple podcast or Spotify. And that's great. I highly encourage you to keep doing that, but did you know that there is a special place for fans to get the VIP experience for Ramble by the River?

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[00:05:23] You'll even get exclusive bonus episodes that you can't find anywhere else, including ramble on the road, the premium monthly podcast that is only available with this subscription to Patreon.com slash RamblebytheRiver.com. So if you're a fan of the show and you regularly listen to the free episodes, you're gonna love the extras that come along with this membership. Every new Royal rambler, which is the 9 99 tier will get a free RamblebytheRiver.com t-shirt after their third month. Do yourself a favor head over to Patreon.com slash RamblebytheRiver, or just click the subscribe link at the top of the page at RamblebytheRiver.com.

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[00:06:34] And he also has, uh, appeared as a contestant on NBC's the voice. And we talk about that a little bit. So it's a really good podcast. I hope you guys like it. without further ado, please give it up for the immensely talented yet. Surprisingly humble. Jacob Miller.

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[00:00:04] should I toss these guys on? Yeah, sure. Nice. I have these same headphones

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[00:00:11] Jacob Miller: really good deal for me. They really are. Yeah. I've got these at my studio at home. They're good ones.

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[00:00:23] Jacob Miller: my no worries. Yeah, yeah. Video. Oh, been there before.

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[00:00:37] it's a little warm. The lights probably don't help too much.

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[00:00:58] Okay. Uh, but I'm [00:01:00] very much a, an appreciator of art and particular music. Uh, so thank you for being here. It's, it's exciting to have you.

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[00:01:09] Jeff Nesbitt: welcome to the show, everybody. Welcome to another episode of RamblebytheRiver.com. I'm your host, Jeff Nesbitt. And I'm joined today in the studio by Jacob Miller.

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[00:01:24] Jacob Miller: Yeah, I'm actually playing.

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[00:01:37] Jeff Nesbitt: So west coast tour, how many stops?

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[00:01:45] We're only doing I think six or seven dates. I think it's. San Diego, LA Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, and Victoria. Some pretty big cities. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of, we we're missing the bay. But, um, it [00:02:00] should be fun. I'm gonna be on the road with this guy, hay fits, uh, from New York. He's a really good singer songwriter as well.

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[00:02:37] And so I've been fortunate enough to go up there the last few years. And you basically just spend a week on island, play a couple shows and get to write and live in a little cabin up there.

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[00:02:53] Jacob Miller: really fun.

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[00:03:01] Jeff Nesbitt: is that kind of like a mix between vacation and,

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[00:03:10] So definitely a lot of time to enjoy the scenic, you know, the beauty, but um, also I'll probably be writing a lot. The last time I was up there, I like wrote a lot of music for an album. It's cool. You can kind of utilize it for relaxation or creative kind of inspiration. I think you bring anybody with you.

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[00:03:49] And he does producing, but, um, yeah, he's gonna come up and perform his own music and then we'll probably be writing together, working on tunes and, and then I'll play so [00:04:00] nice. Yeah, she'll be a good time. I always love going up there. It's just nice to kind of disconnect.

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[00:04:08] I think maybe a little over a year ago. I went up there for just for a weekend with my wife. It's a beautiful place and it's just right there. It's not very far

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[00:04:25] Yeah. That

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[00:04:33] Jacob Miller: experience. Yeah. And I have so many great memories tied to like taking the ferry out to orcas. Cuz I think the first time I played the festival, I, I mentioned dove Fest was like seven or eight years ago.

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[00:05:00] Jeff Nesbitt: 32 32.

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[00:05:13] Jacob Miller: yes, people are sometimes surprised that I'm 32. I, I get a lot of age range guesses.

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[00:05:25] Jacob Miller: No, I'm not like, uh, definitely not like the drink hard rock and roll type or like, uh, singer songwriters is yeah. More like stone in bed by 10 30.

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[00:05:36] Jacob Miller: tattoo. That's pretty badass. Thanks. Yeah, I got that just for street cred. So yeah. Exclusively. Is there a story behind that? No, I, I actually got a matching tattoo with my ex.

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[00:05:55] Jeff Nesbitt: one. Thanks, American traditional.

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[00:06:07] Yeah. I have a lot of them, but they're mostly concealed. So that's, you know, I gotta, gotta keep the, keep the people guessing. That's right.

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[00:06:24] Jacob Miller: It's I feel like, kind of like an easy cop out, but I just usually tell people I'm a singer songwriter, cuz I feel like it encapsulates like a wide range of musical genres.

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[00:06:48] Jeff Nesbitt: a, when you say jazz band, I immediately picture like a high school jazz band that is playing at football games.

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[00:06:56] Jacob Miller: yeah, no, no. That's pet band, but yeah.

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[00:06:59] Jacob Miller: [00:07:00] What what's in, yeah, that could fall under a lot of different categories. So it wasn't like modern jazz, like Bebo or something, something like that. It was more, uh, old kind of 1920s style inspired by like early turn of the century, reg time blues, American, traditional music, and, uh, And like swing jazz.

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[00:07:20] Jeff Nesbitt: guess. Yeah, that sounds

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[00:07:40] And when I met them, they showed me just a lot of cool music. I had never heard before, including like singing acts from the twenties, like the Boswell sisters, um, and just old finger picking jazz and like rag time from piano transcribed to guitar. And just a lot of like styles I had never heard before.

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[00:08:18] Huh? Yeah. Oh yeah, totally. Cuz it's also a lot of people don't care about that kind of music.

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[00:08:28] Jacob Miller: totally. But when you do it can be really rewarding. And I feel like that was such a musical education.

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[00:08:57] I think my style of playing and my [00:09:00] approach and less is more and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I think I usually, when people ask like, name an artist that you sound like, I really like Paul Simon and he heavily influences my songwriting. And so that's like the correlation I give people.

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[00:09:16] Jeff Nesbitt: pretty good one to be a role model. Paul. Simon's amazing. Excellent.

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[00:09:42] And it's really funny, just. He's not the greatest guy, like, or at least I put him on a pedestal for so long, which I still do, cuz he's such a phenomenal songwriter and storyteller, but you know, he's kind of like some of his character traits are maybe some questionable, but it's funny reading the book to see just like how art [00:10:00] Garfunkel was infused in the whole, like obviously Simon and Garfunkle, but then afterwards and how they kind of fell apart because the book kind of just frames it as like, he was like a failed actor after everything was said and done, which is kind of funny.

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[00:10:15] Jacob Miller: of Simon and Garfunkel. Yeah. And he, obviously Paul wrote all the songs. And so as, as incredible and important as his voice was as part of that equation, I definitely like Paul's song stuff more.

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[00:10:30] Jacob Miller: Not necessarily. I think they had a, I think they had a special connection and stuff, but yeah, not to belittle his contributions, but I definitely like Paul's stuff more.

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[00:10:40] Jeff Nesbitt: with the, the black

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[00:11:01] And then like, you. Introducing them to like mainstream Grammy audience, you

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[00:11:11] Jacob Miller: world music totally and allowed for bands like that to actually have recording and touring careers, which is, is really cool.

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[00:11:39] And that Paul Simon was the first white man that he had ever hugged. And it just like when you see them in the studio, it seems like a really cool, like jovial. Community kind of experience that they had and like creating the music. And I've heard some questionable things about how he paid the artist. So I don't really know about the whole picture, but the connectivity over the [00:12:00] genres of music is really inspiring and cool to see how you confuse something.

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[00:12:11] Jeff Nesbitt: Well, do you wanna play us a song and then we'll, we'll go ask a few more questions here. I'm gonna turn my mic

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[00:12:31] Song: "Leave"

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[00:13:01] We took a trip to the shore

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[00:13:19] coastal towns and free change roll by with the day

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[00:13:37] We didn't backpacks. We just had to get away

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[00:14:07] I wanna leave.

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[00:14:31] We can drive into the.

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[00:14:48] It's[00:15:00]

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[00:15:35] Down the go among the tree

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[00:16:02] me, take you for

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[00:16:19] We can drive the nine.

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[00:16:50] let's see.[00:17:00]

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[00:17:19] Jeff Nesbitt: you so much. Oh, that was so cool. That was exciting. That made this feel like a real podcast

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[00:17:26] Jeff Nesbitt: was like, uh, that's definitely the prettiest thing I've ever recorded. Oh, thank

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[00:17:35] Well, wow. I recorded the record two years ago, so a little before then, but a lot of the tunes I write are kind of about being intentional with the people you love and your time. And I just think something I talk about often it shows is just how easy it is in the modern age to feel disconnected from people when we're so connected to what people wanna be perceived as I guess.

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[00:18:15] It's, it's terrifying and sad bit concerning. Yeah. How, how, yeah. How we gravitate towards that. And anyways, this song and many of my others is about yeah. Being, being intentional with your time and especially in that with the people you love. And it's just so easy to make excuses for all of the shit that actually matters, you know, when we're doom scrolling.

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[00:18:46] Jeff Nesbitt: has a very smooth vibe that just kind of like brings up feelings of traveling and, and trying to appreciate the small

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[00:19:01] Existing in a day. Yeah. Cuz if you spend all

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[00:19:09] Jacob Miller: roses? Exactly. Yeah. That's why we're here. Yeah, totally. And I mean, it is funny just how easy it is to be distracted with all of those things. So yeah.

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[00:19:28] Jeff Nesbitt: Um, I wanna check the camera really quickly. And then I would, I have some questions about, um, just, well, lots, but I wanna know about your writing process.

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[00:19:41] Yeah. I think the space was originally supposed to be a loft in bed.

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[00:19:56] Jeff Nesbitt: this, so I'm just trying to get my feet wet on [00:20:00] YouTube.

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[00:20:09] Jacob Miller: post video. And so, yeah. And edit and color green and all this stuff. Yeah. Just all of it. It really is a tremendous amount of

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[00:20:20] And uh, so I cut the video, uh, component of the show and it's been just audio for 75 episodes.

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[00:20:28] Jeff Nesbitt: you have a lot of episodes. Yeah. I tried, I did one a week. I did 55 the first year and then I took, I've taken a couple breaks this year so far, but. They added pretty fast. If you try to bust out one a week, it's

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[00:20:40] And during pandemic weeks go pretty fast.

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[00:20:53] Jacob Miller: thing at all.

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[00:20:56] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I'm I don't know.

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[00:20:59] Yeah. [00:21:00] It's the worst part of the job.

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[00:21:08] Jeff Nesbitt: not my favorites, but it's just not very pleasant. Yeah. But this is so much better. It's the exact opposite. It's this is trying to connect with people rather than trying to like reprimand them.

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[00:21:44] Thank you. It comes off as very much, like. I've been listening to quite a few artists lately because of looking for people to interview for this podcast. Sure. And you're one of the better artists that I have come across that, that have been within the realm of possibility for me to get in here. Sure.

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[00:22:07] Jacob Miller: Honestly, it's changed so much throughout the years. Um, how did it start in the beginning? Yeah, so I grew up in a really tight knit Catholic community in my small town. I'm from a town of about 500.

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[00:22:38] but, um, yeah, I sang in the church and then when I was, um, about 12, my aunt who was actually the choir director for the church, uh, gave me my first guitar cuz she had played and she taught me a couple cowboy chords. Um, and, and what's a cowboy chord, just like, uh, C G D kind of like the, the basic, the old style Western songs or the formative, just [00:23:00] like basic chords, not barred cords, open cords.

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[00:23:25] That was like my, I felt like, were you on the team? No, I just, okay. The only person, the one who wasn't an athlete. Yeah. so I was in the pep band as we were talking, I played trumpet in school, but, um, anyways, all that to say music was definitely, I viewed from a young age as an avenue of expression when I didn't necessarily have the words to communicate what I was going

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[00:23:45] You've always been drawn to creative stuff.

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[00:23:55] Jeff Nesbitt: your parents do just cur outta

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[00:24:08] Yes, they are hardworking. Government type folk. Um, but yeah, uh, and you know, obviously when you're young, you're learning music and I wanted to like play pop songs on the radio and like top 40 hits. And then as I got older, especially when I moved to Portland and got into jazz and stuff, um, yeah, I just explored music with new people and I moved to the city, not knowing anyone.

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[00:24:56] But I've always pretty much written. By myself. Um, [00:25:00] and that process has changed generally speaking. I kind of just start playing and picking and I'll think of a melody. And then I'll start singing words over that melody and just like, let it unravel and happen. Um, I actually just, this past week led a seven day songwriting challenge with some friends where we, every day for seven days, you have to write a new song with no.

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[00:25:43] Or like, I like what you did here with this transition into the bridge. And that sounds fun. Yeah. It's kind of like a support group for songwriters, which is really cool.

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[00:25:56] Jacob Miller: deadlines help me? Yes, because I do [00:26:00] co-write with friends as well.

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[00:26:17] Oh, wow. Like on a verse or something like that, because it's just maybe not up to my standard of what I think is good enough or sophisticated enough. Um, how do you know

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[00:26:27] Jacob Miller: I think when it portrays this story in a way that I feel like really proud of that's when I kind of am able to, uh, allow it to be, you know, but with the songwriting challenge, it's actually been a really great exercise in not being precious, um, or too precious, rather with an idea, cuz you don't really have enough time to think about how it's all the ways that this one thing is wrong.

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[00:27:10] because it's truly how you're in real time feeling about it and, and perceiving it. And so it's cool doing the exercise too. I did it with three or four other friends and, um, all of them have different writing styles. So one friend would take the prompt and write down seven ideas of how we could tell a different story with that prompt.

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[00:27:48] And generally speaking, I guess I kind of answered the question right away in saying I'll play some chords. And if I think of a melody, I'll start singing different words and syncopated syllables over them to see what fits well, [00:28:00] but it kind of changes. That's generally how I approach it, but sometimes I will write down a whole story and be like, how can I express this through music?

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[00:28:07] Jeff Nesbitt: was exactly what I was hoping you. I mean, just, that was the answer I was looking for, that there is lots of different ways and that it's not always, there's no one way. Yeah. There's no wrong way to eat

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[00:28:29] And my biggest takeaway from the workshop with all these kids was there's there's the. not one way to write a song. There's infinite ways. Do you like working with kids? I do teaching kids. Yeah, I do. I, um, usually do one on one lessons when I have taught in, in those kind of like education scenarios, but this was one of my first times teaching group and it was like terrifying, but also really fun and rewarding.

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[00:29:15] And, um, just expressed that she saw me on the show and she, they have guest artists at their school. Sometimes it's called, uh, avenues world school. And, uh, they have locations all over, uh, the world. Um, but this one's in New York and I did some zoom workshops, um, where I would. Talk to kids about songwriting over the pandemic.

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[00:29:50] So, okay, cool. It was really cool. I, I had a great time and like also after like a year and a half of the pandemic to go to New York and take the subway into the city every day, it [00:30:00] was like, wow. Living life again.

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[00:30:08] Jacob Miller: COVID times? Um, well, I had only been to New York a handful of times prior.

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[00:30:23] Jeff Nesbitt: I imagine a

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[00:30:30] Jeff Nesbitt: was the second to last wave that I still paid attention to.

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[00:30:35] Jacob Miller: one. Like Omni, maybe it was, it was right before AMN yeah. Or whatever it was. And

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[00:30:43] Jacob Miller: B five. Yeah. Yes. That terrifying, terrifying going on tour

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[00:30:51] I'm probably best to just, yeah. Let it just live life. Let it, let it live.

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[00:31:12] Seem a little more lax now. And like we, where did we go? Um, we went on a week long camping trip a couple weeks ago. And when we were on the camping trip, we didn't see a lot of people. So we were massless the entire time. We're like, cool. Like finally, this feels like things are getting back to normal. And then when we got back to Portland, it's like the new wave and then everyone's wearing masks again.

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[00:31:33] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Which I was there three months ago probably. And it wasn't bad.

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[00:31:42] Jeff Nesbitt: I know it it's it, there were so much emotional stuff tied into the masks that it just got to be too exhausting. It was just like, maybe we should have just like, we were talking about masks on this podcast.

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[00:31:54] Jacob Miller: No reason to no reason.

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[00:31:59] Jacob Miller: sure. [00:32:00] Totally.

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[00:32:52] Jeff Nesbitt: Cool.

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[00:33:00] Song: Around My Head

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[00:33:22] In particular. It just felt like a, almost like stream of consciousness, little, little notes to people that kind of formed into this song. So it's called around my head.

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[00:34:03] Dodge the darkness. As it flies around me. Now around my,

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[00:34:19] on my head, around my head. Around my,

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[00:35:35] Around my.[00:36:00]

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[00:36:31] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah, we've got two more next week.

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[00:36:37] Jeff Nesbitt: Ned Heavenrich who is in a band called the, um, Brownsmead Flats. Okay. And, um, rose, Gerber and sweet relief is rose. Gerber is gonna be here also.

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[00:37:09] I don't know. I haven't done the full research on her yet. I don't know her. I know Ned he's actually my, uh, my wife's. Uncle. Oh, cool. That he's cool. He, he traveled across the country and like, uh, hitchhiked and wrote a play about it, a musical. Very cool. Which I happened to go see like 15 years ago, long before I ever knew any of these people.

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[00:37:39] Jacob Miller: That's so funny. Well, that's a cool

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[00:37:47] Jacob Miller: Yeah. How'd that happen? Um, yeah, it was an interesting experience. Uh, I received an email from one of their production assistants, or it was someone from the [00:38:00] production team asking if I'd auditioned for the show. Um, so you got recruited

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[00:38:08] Jacob Miller: was, I it's funny cuz I, um, had never seen the show in my life and I it's a good show.

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[00:38:35] I watched the first season when I was like 11 or something. Were

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[00:38:43] Jacob Miller: person? Justin had pretty good hair. Yeah, he did. Um, no, that's really funny. I don't even remember. I just remember they, um, really monopolized on the poor singers.

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[00:39:11] Hey, such and such from the voice we'd like you to audition. And my roommate at the time, char, uh, he's a really good friend of mine and, and colleague and co-writer Charlie Porter. He's a Grammy winning trumpet player and composer and super phenomenally talented dude. I told him and his partner, Tessa, who lived at the house with me about it.

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[00:39:49] And the communities that I am in and stuff. Were you worried

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[00:39:56] Jacob Miller: Not necessarily that I sold out, but I think the perception of others [00:40:00] was something that did come to mind immediately because I have been like a DIY gigging independent artist for over a decade.

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[00:40:28] But so I, um, in a nutshell, I did this audition in Portland for, for the voice and they gave me the paperwork. They said, Hey, you'll hear back from us in a month. If we're interested. And that year I released my first solo record after stopping my jazz band. And so I was, uh, doing a lot of touring, like over six months of touring in 2019, this, the latter half of, of that year.

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[00:41:17] I was like, well, I guess I can cancel my plans if you can get me back in time for this other gig. And so sure enough, they did. And I just viewed it as like, I'd go for two days and stay in a hotel in LA. Vacation and meet some cool people. And so I went, I did the audition, it was at like seven in the morning.

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[00:42:03] And I ended up, I think I made it through like three rounds and, um, met some really incredible people. And it was, yeah, overall a really positive experience. It was not, not nearly as like behind the scenes competitive as I had perceived that it, it would

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[00:42:21] Jacob Miller: Yeah. Like I met some of my closest friends doing the show and we would, you know, it's like a hundred musicians from across the country, all staying in a hotel. So it's kind of like summer camp in its own way. I bet that's fun. Yeah. And like, you know, you, it's funny, like there was like a social circle of like the country kids and then like some of the more like singer songwriters and there was probably five or six people, um, that I met that we would stay in our hotel rooms and I'll like go in a circle and share songs that we were writing and it did feel collaborative and very community oriented and supportive.

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[00:42:59] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:43:00] experience improved your abilities? Like did you improve because of that exposure?

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[00:43:29] I didn't, yeah. I didn't feel like I walked away with new knowledge about actual music, but I did feel like I walked out with a deeper understanding of like how like the machine works.

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[00:43:47] Jacob Miller: Oh no. Yeah, no. There's a cast of characters that play roles and it's, it's very. Or, yeah, it's very, there's an architect. Like, was there a

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[00:44:11] This is stage like they were the interviews and stuff, not the interviews, but more of like two people are having a conflict, like, so, and so said this and that, that I'm talking more reality shows where it's like conflict based like real

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[00:44:30] And then after I did the voice, I met so many musicians that were like, I was on the voice five years ago or whatever. And it's like a funny common thread, but, and I've also had some friends that have done idle now because those, those funny, just like those communities. It happens. But, um, my friend did Ida last year and I guess it was just really quite, not a great experience.

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[00:45:06] But I heard, um, from a friend that like they were on idol and right before they were gonna perform with someone early on in the competition, they said to him, they're like, what are you gonna do if she forgets the words when you perform. Right before he went on stage. And it's just like, that just is mean-spirited.

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[00:45:31] Jeff Nesbitt: been one dickhead who knows.

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[00:45:42] Jeff Nesbitt: look at the careers that it's produced.

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[00:45:53] Jeff Nesbitt: for the people who'd watch the voice. This is a big deal. You got the four

[: 00:45:57

[00:46:01] Yeah. Okay. Still, it was still very, and I was the last person to go on my day too. Oh, wow. It was, it was like a 15 hour shoot day. It was. How did they choose that? Um, I, I don't even know, honestly, there's, you know, like a hundred artists and I think they do the blind auditions over like a handful of days.

[: 00:46:20

[00:46:38] Yeah. Like the country guy and the guy. Like dad died and like family tragedy and it's, you know, like they utilize the trauma as character arcs for their cast. Like it's reality television. It's, it's not uncommon. It's not like they're the only show doing that. But that definitely seemed to be a thing that I noticed that always

[: 00:46:57

[00:47:00] Not necessarily on the voice, but any show where it's like, I'm watching show about a chef and then it's like this and it starts telling you all the terrible things that's happened to this chef. It's like, I don't no, no, no. Just make the food. Yeah.

[: 00:47:10

[00:47:21] It does because it's like monopolizing on a tragedy when it's like, I actually, um, my father passed when I was five. Oh, sorry. Sorry. No, it's okay. Thanks. Um, but I told them initially when I did the show, when they first signed me up, I was like, I will not talk about this on camera. Not because I'm uncomfortable doing it, but I'm just not gonna allow you guys to use that as a tool in my character.

[: 00:47:42

[00:47:59] [00:48:00] Yeah,

[: 00:48:00

[00:48:15] Jacob Miller: Yeah, no, you can, you can tell in the beginning. Yeah. I actually was never a fan of reality television. Um, but the last, like couple weeks I've been watching love island with my girlfriend. Have you ever seen this show? It's I, yeah, I'm familiar. It's completely absurd. Yeah. But uh, we really like talking in British accents to each other and uh, we are watching the UK version and it is, it is truly hilarious.

[: 00:48:37

[00:48:38] Jeff Nesbitt: it's absurdist. It's

[: 00:48:39

[00:48:53] And so I'm like, well, now that I'm 25 episodes into love island, I guess I can see the appeal for some

[: 00:48:59

[00:49:08] Jacob Miller: Yeah, it's funny too. Cuz on love island.

[: 00:49:10

[00:49:27] Oh, is he, is he as nice as he seems? He actually is a really nice guy. Um, he seems legitimately

[: 00:49:33

[00:49:33] Jacob Miller: kind person. He seems. Yeah, no, he do. You know, it's funny cuz our time with the coaches is actually quite limited. Cuz there are so many contestants and they have hard curfews and all this different stuff, but um, yeah and the handful of times that I did get to work and interact with him and I met the Jonas brothers too, which is hilarious cuz everyone was freaking out and I was like, I've never even heard a song by you guys before I haven't either.

[: 00:49:54

[00:49:55] Jeff Nesbitt: know how they're so famous. I've known 'em for 10 years and I don't remember any of their music. They, [00:50:00] well,

[: 00:50:00

[00:50:13] Exactly, exactly. Which I'm not mad

[: 00:50:16

[00:50:18] Jacob Miller: musical. Same. No. Yeah, that was, I was too old. Yeah, same, same. But yeah, my partners five years younger than I am and yeah, she was yeah. Subjected to all this, but okay. So that makes sense. Yeah. But regardless, um, what was I even saying?

[: 00:50:30

[00:50:39] Jeff Nesbitt: she's an actress. I think her name's like something Chopra. Okay. She's like, I'm a, I'm gonna pull up a picture, you know, it just, just, we have time.

[: 00:50:49

[00:50:51] Jeff Nesbitt: you could keep

[: 00:50:51

[00:50:53] Fair enough. Fair enough. But yeah, I met met Nick and, and that was cool. And, and also like, yeah, Blake Shelton and Kelly Clarkson and the other [00:51:00] judges were nice. I got to chat with them throughout the experience and, um, I got to meet James Taylor, um, when I was on the voice, which as someone who really appreciates like the American songbook and, you know, Paul Simon and Jonah and all those like classic singer songwriters, like it was really cool to meet James Taylor.

[: 00:51:20

[00:51:22] Jeff Nesbitt: just vocal, Tamers. Yeah. His voice is so smooth.

[: 00:51:24

[00:51:36] Jeff Nesbitt: he's a pretty good looking man.

[: 00:51:37

[00:51:39] Jacob Miller: Yeah. Yeah. I think they're having a kid or something. Oh, good for them. Yeah. Shout out. Jonas's yeah, baby Jonas. But, um, but yeah, walking away from the experience, I am glad that I did it, which is. I wasn't sure how I'd feel like two years post, you know, making that decision. So, so what did it

[: 00:51:56

[00:51:57] Did you notice changes or was it pretty much the same after you came

[: 00:51:59

[00:52:20] Oh. So people were watching . So people were watching it, but it was a really interesting plateau of exposure because it was like, all these people are supporting me and excited to watch it, but there's some other really way more important, terrifying shit going down in the world. And so I feel like leading up to the voice, especially like, as I had mentioned, I released a record that year previously in 2019 and in 2020 was when I did the voice in my episode air in March.

[: 00:52:49

[00:53:05] And it was like, yeah, I'm gonna tour the world this year. I'm gonna go to Japan and I'm gonna go to Europe twice, and I'm gonna be all across the states and record a new album again. And, and it was just like, You know, the pandemic and money and having to be home and you can't travel and you can't play gigs.

[: 00:53:23

[00:53:40] Which again, I don't wanna necessarily be the voice guy, but I think it does present an artist on a professional platform where you maybe. See them with a more professional lens or like also

[: 00:53:54

[00:53:57] Jacob Miller: performing, which is high stakes. Yeah, [00:54:00] totally. Like, I think over 9 million people watched my first episode or something like, like live it's enormous for

[: 00:54:07

[00:54:07] Jacob Miller: television.

[: 00:54:08

[00:54:26] No pressure.

[: 00:54:27

[00:54:30] Jacob Miller: act so. Yeah. As I mentioned, I was the last person to go on the day that I did my blind audition. And so right before I went on, I was the last person. So what the producer, a woman named Brittany really amazingly kind woman.

[: 00:54:43

[00:54:59] Like you wake up at [00:55:00] three and hair and makeup and costume, you know, all the stuff. And, uh, I grabbed her by the shoulders and I was like, listen, I, I have to go today. I'm not gonna do, I'm not gonna do this tomorrow basically. And she was like, okay, I'll see what I can do. And like five minutes later, I was standing outside the doors, ready to go on the stage and play.

[: 00:55:16

[00:55:37] So I think there was like this initial like, oh shit.

[: 00:55:40

[00:55:41] Jacob Miller: listen, they're there to judge you. Exactly. And so it was interesting though, cuz as soon as the doors opened and I walked on stage, I just felt like a calm kind of washed over me. And I just picked a point in the, in the back of the room.

[: 00:55:53

[00:56:08] It felt really appropriate just with every the political climate and everything. And so yeah, I wanted to like perform the song, um, authentically and like have my attention focused on that. So that was kind of my approach going into it. But it's funny now, like after the pandemic and not gigging a lot in a live setting, there have been a couple gigs where I'll get a little nervous before going on stage and uh, I just try to like, remember that performance where I'm like, remember that time that you like had to go on national television, like yeah, this is way less scary than that.

[: 00:56:41

[00:56:44] Jeff Nesbitt: like the, the intimacy of a smaller room?

[: 00:56:46

[00:57:02] It was just a house show with like 40 people just sitting in chairs and, you know, we just play and it's dead quiet and there, and it it's so intimate and connective that like. maybe the it's, maybe the audience isn't necessarily like collaborating with the artist, but it just feels like there's nothing in between the artist and the listener.

[: 00:57:22

[00:57:43] I do play some covers and I played a lot of old jazz music as well. So like that's cool. But as far as like contemporary covers, I really don't. I

[: 00:57:51

[00:57:52] Jeff Nesbitt: that's something that early in your musical. Life is probably a lot more common because it's like, you first you play the songs of the people you like, [00:58:00] and then you start to make your

[: 00:58:01

[00:58:01] Yeah. And you learn from those songs and you take bits and pieces that you like and, and apply it to your own music. So yeah, I've been even being on the voice, like when I did my blind, they asked me like, do you do a lot of covers? And I was like, I almost, I almost try to do no covers whatsoever because I wanna write my own music and be known for my own music.

[: 00:58:19

[00:58:24] Jeff Nesbitt: Like, I mean, sometimes they're better than the original or they become more famous than the original.

[: 00:58:27

[00:58:32] Jeff Nesbitt: bunch of Elvis songs that, that happened with.

[: 00:58:35

[00:58:35] Jacob Miller: songs. Oh no. Were all of his music from black people? Yeah. Yeah. No, like almost exclusively. Mm-hmm it's really sad. Yeah. But, but you a big mama Thornton. Yeah. And yeah, so many people, but it, yeah, it's cool. I, I think my relationship with the covers has kind of shifted in the last year two where I feel a little bit more comfortable doing, like, I guess I don't feel uncomfortable, but again, if I had my preference, I'd rather be playing [00:59:00] original music for people listening to me because that's gonna give them a unique experience than playing.

[: 00:59:06

[00:59:23] So that's important

[: 00:59:25

[00:59:37] Jacob Miller: I think it's kind of mood dependent. Um, I mean I just, I love to pick and play and come up with new stuff.

[: 00:59:46

[01:00:16] Like, it's cool to have your story be relatable to someone else. And for someone else to find solace in a way that you're expressing and emoting. Absolutely. So that's probably one of my greatest takeaways from music. Um, yeah. Just being able to connect, being able to connect with people. Yeah. It's really special.

[: 01:00:37

[01:00:38] Jeff Nesbitt: it's the most special thing that we do is connecting with other humans and

[: 01:00:43

[01:00:46] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. I mean, there's no such thing as a human. In isolation, just one that doesn't exist. We're we're here to connect. Mm-hmm , we're all just one big thing together. And I think that's, what's so special about all art is like that ability to [01:01:00] transcend time and space and experience something with another human simultaneously across space and time.

[: 01:01:08

[01:01:13] Jacob Miller: Wow. I'll take it. I will take it. Um, yeah. I, I, I like that whole saying like, no one reads the same book, you know, I feel like it applies with music too, in the sense of yeah. You bring

[: 01:01:24

[01:01:25] Jacob Miller: when you listen. Yeah, exactly.

[: 01:01:27

[01:01:44] Jeff Nesbitt: how's your relationship to the inner critic.

[: 01:01:49

[01:02:11] That feeling of not really knowing what you're doing or if it's good enough, or if you're, you know, reaping the rewards that the work you've done entails. And yeah, I don't know. There are good days and bad days. Um, but I think being gentle on yourself is important. Um, and also talking to yourself like you would talk to a friend is really important.

[: 01:02:38

[01:02:55] Yeah, exactly. And it's like, why don't we treat ourselves with that kind of tenderness? Yeah. It's, [01:03:00] it's really rare to actually see people do that naturally and not having to you remind themselves or do a check-in or something. So, yeah. It's almost like

[: 01:03:09

[01:03:13] So just like, I'll just beat 'em to the punch. Just

[: 01:03:15

[01:03:31] You follow people who do stuff generally. That's similar to you. I follow a lot of musicians and it's, you know, it's easy to compare your accolades and, and what you've got going on and the amount of work you have and whatever your, your success with others, but it's, it's all relative. And also, however, you're perceiving, you know, however, you're trying to perceive your, put yourself out there on the internet is such a one-sided view.

[: 01:03:59

[01:04:06] Jeff Nesbitt: just. Talk crap about people like so many people,

[: 01:04:10

[01:04:17] Jeff Nesbitt: anybody who makes anything creatively, uh, like the chances that they're out there, trolling people are so small.

[: 01:04:23

[01:04:26] Jacob Miller: in any way. It's easier to be a critic than to make something so much easier. Yeah. And it's, you know, in the age, especially with COVID and the pandemic of isolation, it's like, yeah, it's easy to hide behind a keyboard because you don't have a face.

[: 01:04:38

[01:04:42] Jeff Nesbitt: gonna run outta material. You there's so much garbage out there that it's, it's easy to find stuff to criticize, but why like, yeah. It's why not find something you like and talk about how good

[: 01:04:51

[01:04:53] Jeff Nesbitt: focus on what you like and avoid the stuff you don't like by just people who do criticize others constantly.

[: 01:04:59

[01:05:08] Jacob Miller: Yeah, sure. Um, I kind of actually wanna do this song that I wrote at the songwriting challenge. I haven't played it live. Uh, so I'm gonna grab my phone so I can get the lyrics cuz perfect.

[: 01:05:21

[01:05:21] Jacob Miller: Hopefully I fully remember it, but it just feels like a good opportunity to try something new out, you know? That's awesome.

[: 01:05:35

[01:06:00] I forgot what I was going to say. Probably doesn't matter. Anyway. It's funny how some things just come and go clouds that look like creatures. Life's little old, but I don't need drown my feet and pills or beer.

[: 01:06:39

[01:06:45] go on.

[: 01:06:59

[01:07:03] uh,

[: 01:07:07

[01:07:28] I can help, but wonder why we're here. The cosmos tends to make me feel inferior,

[: 01:07:40

[01:08:07] I just need you buy my side. We'll go on a little ride.

[: 01:08:21

[01:08:27] It gets me by

[: 01:08:35

[01:08:45] It's true. I wanna stay high with you.

[: 01:08:57

[01:09:01] I like that. Thanks.

[: 01:09:03

[01:09:05] Jacob Miller: high for real. I I enjoy smoking marijuana. Yes. It's good stuff. It is. Yeah. And I mean, uh, in Oregon they basically pay you to take it from the shop. It's so cheap.

[: 01:09:15

[01:09:34] It doesn't make you feel good. No, I, I don't like waking up being hungover or even having two drinks and waking up and it just feels obviously, you know, their, their own repercussions with smoking marijuana, but like it long term just feels I just enjoy more. It just it's, it's a way to relax. It's a way to, you know, heighten an experience and it just, yeah, it feels long term wise, like a lot less detrimental to my health and like, just [01:10:00] so crushing amounts of alcohol in my liver.

[: 01:10:02

[01:10:08] Jacob Miller: being a musician is like the only job you get paid to drink. Yeah. Besides maybe like a spirit distiller or something, but mm-hmm yeah. It's funny. The culture with rock, like not rock, but just musicians in general. I think there is such.

[: 01:10:20

[01:10:51] Yeah. Depressing. It's more common now instead of like, I threw a TV out the hotel window, it's like, what supplements are you taking? [01:11:00] Are you, are you taking any tinctures while you're on tour Uhhuh? And it's like, what? Yeah. Like what, how are you staying healthy? It like, that's actually, do you meditate?

[: 01:11:06

[01:11:15] Jeff Nesbitt: Do you meditate? That's actually a good

[: 01:11:16

[01:11:26] Jeff Nesbitt: physical meditation.

[: 01:11:27

[01:11:28] Jacob Miller: it's similar. It's kind of amazing how good you feel. But I don't wanna say that I do meditate because I do it so infrequently, but there are times, um, we have an office room that we use for like my studio and, and, you know, just reading and stuff. And we kind of do me and my partner do yoga in there and then also meditate sometimes as well.

[: 01:11:48

[01:12:08] You know, it's a good skill to have in your back pocket, just yeah. Even. Breathing techniques of grounding. And

[: 01:12:14

[01:12:21] Jacob Miller: I fully support

[: 01:12:22

[01:12:27] Jacob Miller: also like, yeah, maybe they should teach like, How to manage your finances in school too.

[: 01:12:33

[01:12:33] Jeff Nesbitt: they could add. They could add a few things how to pay your taxes would be good.

[: 01:12:38

[01:12:41] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. Our school system is set up to build good factory workers. Like that's the industrial, you know, the industrial education system was for

[: 01:12:49

[01:12:50] Yeah. Yeah. Well, no. Yeah. Gosh, it doesn't

[: 01:12:52

[01:12:54] Jacob Miller: to. Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. It's, it's kind of scary stuff.

[: 01:12:59

[01:13:12] Jacob Miller: that true? Yeah. I grew up Catholic and um, my family did go to church every Sunday. We were involved. It was a very small community. So naturally, you know, like if you go to church every Sunday, you know, everyone and you you're involved, but, um, we were never like firing brimstone Catholics where it's like you're, but you know, they still, I had to go to confirmation classes when I was 17.

[: 01:13:33

[01:14:11] Oh, Sampson. Yeah. You know, like I just told that story. Oh really? That's funny. Yeah. I, I remember like kind of calling out my teachers and being like, it seems like we're really picking and choosing here, this strong guy just

[: 01:14:20

[01:14:24] Jacob Miller: yeah. That's the, I see, I don't know the story verbatim, like you two, but um, one of my faves.

[: 01:14:28

[01:14:58] So well said. [01:15:00] And so naturally I think when I grew away from the, and we stopped going to church when I was probably in like middle school or in high school, cuz I was going to church in the high school that I was going to, but I was very vocal about my disbelief in the things that my parents were pretty supportive.

[: 01:15:17

[01:15:35] It's and at least in my experience, and I know there are so many different types of churches and communities that like take the doctrine and utilize it in their own ways. But just that idea of like, it, like these systems of guilt in which we owe the church something money. Yeah. Like literally money in your life.

[: 01:15:54

[01:16:05] Jeff Nesbitt: I share that very similar view I recognize the value I grew up in the church. I, I. I wouldn't even say that I specifically left the church at any time, but like, I still believe in God.

[: 01:16:17

[01:16:22] Jacob Miller: channel him to you. Yeah. And also like a white guy in a robe. Yeah. When it's like, there's no white people in the Bible, like, oh my God, it all just feels so contradicting. And again, I don't mean to say that in a way that it generalizes anyone who believes in a Christian God or Western, whatever, it's more just the people who utilize it for division and hate.

[: 01:16:44

[01:16:51] Jeff Nesbitt: of control structures back then. Yeah. That were necessary at certain times to control people because the church has always been so powerful. Yeah. Like they [01:17:00] were essentially a form of government. Absolutely. And so these structures were, were necessary to be able to extract power from people.

[: 01:17:08

[01:17:16] Jacob Miller: what? Yeah. I feel like at this point too, especially just like post boomer, like there's a lot of generational trauma surrounding religion and like, especially in the Midwest, just, yeah.

[: 01:17:30

[01:17:51] Thunderstorm Artis. He's okay. So Hawaiian dude thunderstorm is his first name. Yeah. He just had his first baby to his son, Ezekiel, but, [01:18:00] um, anyways, uh, what am I saying here? He, he told me that in his eyes being a good Christian means being Christlike, which means like, you know, extending your hand to others, helping your neighbor doing, even if they're not like you, which yeah.

[: 01:18:14

[01:18:29] Jeff Nesbitt: that. No, I think Jesus Christ himself. Would've been pro-choice.

[: 01:18:33

[01:18:38] Jeff Nesbitt: don't think he would've been for the government telling people what to do with their bodies.

[: 01:18:41

[01:19:10] And again, I don't say this to generalize for all people who believe in a God or a Western God or whatever. It's more just like these very, like the roots of this division. yeah. Really contradicting to the doctrine. I, I think so,

[: 01:19:24

[01:19:32] But mm-hmm, , I don't know. I know a lot of people who are still very much tied in and, and believe that whole system is, is gonna get them to heaven. And it's sad to me because it's like, you're, you're living in fear. Like, and this fear has been put in your head by the people who you are. like thinking or giving you your salvation, but it's not, it's not a good way to live your life.

[: 01:19:56

[01:20:13] Anyways. I don't mean to just, I'm not trying to bash your trash talk by any means. Cause again, I also wanna iterate that or reiterate that, like I have met many people that are involved in churches or pastors or whatever that do incredible work for their communities. Absolutely. And utilize those tools to help others, which at the bottom of everything, with Christianity and whatever, like Catholicism, helping people is good.

[: 01:20:35

[01:21:00] Yeah. A little pick and choose which again, that is for some people, a lot of people don't do that. So I'm not trying to over generalize. It's

[: 01:21:07

[01:21:15] Jacob Miller: on every yeah. And there are good people who don't believe in any, you know, it's exactly. It's, it's, we're all people at the end of the day. So it it's funny cuz as much of, as it is a religious issue, it's more of like a humanity issue I think. Yeah. So it's a

[: 01:21:29

[01:21:30] Just like how are we gonna organize? Yeah. Um, let's see.

[: 01:21:35

[01:21:36] Jacob Miller: song? Sure. Yeah. I don't know what I'll do. Let's see.

[: 01:21:44

[01:21:44] Jacob Miller: Uh, this song is called tricks. And I wrote this in the Deschutes national forest couple years ago. Um, I do this artist residency out in outside of sister's Oregon at, uh, subtle lodge. It's a really special place if you've never been, I recommend checking it out. [01:22:00] But, um, it's this lodge with a bunch of rustic, one room cabins on a lake subtle lake.

[: 01:22:06

[01:22:31] I can tell by the way you smile, you're up and good. And I think best if I just play along,

[: 01:22:45

[01:23:01] loving you is easy. And living's just the same. It's whay how I feel the pain. Yeah. Know that when you need me. Oh, you have to say, oh, you have to say.

[: 01:23:37

[01:23:51] baby. Maybe you can play your tricks. Me, I [01:24:00] whoa. Oh,

[: 01:24:07

[01:24:56] Oh, you have to say, [01:25:00] oh yeah,

[: 01:25:04

[01:25:11] Baby. Maybe you could grab your arms around me little too tie. Cause the battle looks bigger in the frying pants to baby. Maybe you can play a trick song me tonight. Whoa,

[: 01:25:38

[01:25:49] whoa. Oh.

[: 01:25:59

[01:26:20] Fifth. I start the west coast tour up the coast from LA. So wow.

[: 01:26:24

[01:26:25] Jacob Miller: pretty good. Yeah. I feel pretty good. Working on a bunch of new music with some friends too. I've got a couple different EP singles and an album kind of in the work. So nice. Trying to stay busy, got a side project with a friend in Seattle too, that I'm been writing on.

[: 01:26:39

[01:26:46] Jeff Nesbitt: your stuff?

[: 01:26:47

[01:27:07] I

[: 01:27:07

[01:27:22] Um, I really have enjoyed the hell out of this, man. Thank you so much for coming. The music has been so good. It's it's been really nice to get to know you. Thank you so much for coming. I

[: 01:27:32

[01:27:42] Absolutely. Come back

[: 01:27:43

[01:27:48] Jacob Miller: Bye.