Episode 18
Find yourself in the thick of it with Martha Williams
Educator-extraordinaire turned climate activist Martha Williams drops by to talk about Mother Earth and what we can do to keep her healthy. Martha has a Master's degree from USC, has worked in education for nearly half a century, and she has personally taken tips on how to help the planet... from Al Gore! We meander through many topics but most revolve around climate change and why it is such a hard problem to understand. She has great stories and was a pleasure to interview. I hope you enjoy!
Topics/keywords:
Los Angeles California, San Fernando Valley, coastal Alliance for Youth, Ocean Beach School District, elementary education, masters in special education, University of Southern California, girl scouts, mariner scouts, sailing, catamarans, Catalina island, Avalon, Pacific northwest, Long Beach Peninsula, special education, running, Al gore, An Inconvenient Truth, climate change, global warming, global weirdening, Denver Colorado, climate change conference, diversity, imposter syndrome, reduce, reuse recycle, Earth day, marine debris, pacific garbage patch, plastics, Single use plastics, eco tourism, Fishing, fisheries management, natural resources, sustainability, regenerative practices, regenerative agriculture, Climate Reality Project, Washington State University extension offices, cranberry research, Dr. Kim Patten, Friends of Willapa National Wildlife Refuge, volunteer work, Spartina alterniflora, noxious weed eradication, Willapa Bay, naturalists, bird watching, hardcore bird lovers, Music, musical aptitude, rhythm, music psychology, church, religion, spirituality, Cults, Black Lives Matter, cOVID-19 global pandemic, FDR, the new deal, US economy, economic recovery, the stock market, the great depression, World War II, civil unrest, riots, Portland Oregon, Seattle Washington, 2020 presidential election, poverty, bipartisanship, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, cultural division, grassroots movements, Big oil, fossil fuels, natural gas, fracking, Joe Biden, Jamie Hererra butler, voter suppression, WA.gov, carbon science, pine beetle, PNW spruce tree die-off, pollution, micro plastics, Fukushima, nuclear waste, mercury poisoning, tsunami debris, gooseneck barnacles, salvaged boat, George Hill, Hill towing, biased media, demonic acid, Ocean acidification, shellfish, salmon habitat, international student exchange, reincarnation, deja vu, neuroscience, consciousness, God, shapeshifting, violence, insurrection, Exxon, oil spills, statistics, Salty talks, water bears, cryogenics, telomeres, Range, Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell, civic duty, scuba, snorkeling, hypothermia, Galapagos islands.
Music credit: Still Fly, Revel Day
Transcript
martha williams audio –
Note: This transcript was created by Descript software and may contain errors.
Jeff Nesbitt: [:[00:00:05] And I am joined today by Martha Williams. How's it going? Martha?
[:[00:00:12]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:00:12] Her hometown, Los Angeles, California, and correct me if I'm wrong. She is team coordinator at reusable bag project, a leader at climate reality, Denver, Colorado. I was curious about what that one was. She has her masters in special education from USC.
[:[00:00:36] Martha Williams: [00:00:36] With ocean beach school district 28 years and LA 12. So I taught 40 put in your
[:[00:00:48]Martha Williams: [00:00:48] Exactly. 2015.
[:[00:00:53] Martha Williams: [00:00:53] People ask you the question when you get towards retirement and actually when you do it, what are you going to do? [00:01:00] And all I said to them was I'm just going to breathe for the first year because there's a million things to do. And I did that. I did take one trip to Alaska that fall, but I really didn't change any major things except not having to get up and go full-time to work every day.
[:[00:01:47] And then of course I believe we're all connected. So it's a global journey also.
[:[00:02:02] Martha Williams: [00:02:02] start at the beginning.
[:[00:02:25] And then I got into Scouts, which was a way to start a mind kind of my journey towards service also, and people and kids and running brownie camps in high school. And gee, I was a Mariner scout, which meant I got to sail on. Schooners on cattle Moran's Jim RNs has catamaran, so it had a higher head room because he was six foot six.
[:[00:03:17] So anyway, that's how my journey kind of began with being of service, I think, and I always wanted to be a teacher since I was five.
[:[00:03:27] Martha Williams: [00:03:27] of nature and coming up to the Pacific Northwest, just on family vacations, up to Crescent Lake, up North in Washington and stuff, not coming to the long beach peninsula.
[:[00:03:58] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:03:58] How'd they end up having
[:[00:04:06] In their Winnebago. And so they just went through Oregon and obviously got here and then went through long beach all the way up to Surfside. So in 1978, I was on my summer break from teaching and I decided I'm going to go see where my parents ran away too. So I came up here and yes, no lie. There were three positions open in the ocean beach school district.
[:[00:04:48]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:04:48] Was special ed, your focus for a specific reason. Was that your passion or you just, that was the available job. I know your master's was in special ed.
[:[00:05:07] Of regular ed and special ed. It interested me more it's I got an Ms in special ed. So it's more science-based meaning psychology and even some medical stuff and how that affects learners and allergies and food. And so even back in the day, that was more interesting to me than just doing, units and study and stuff.
[:[00:05:52] They trusted me here in 1978. It was my first special ed position. Tom Akerlund hired me. Oh,
[:[00:06:01] [00:06:00] Martha Williams: [00:06:01] So it was a good, it was a good gig. I did it for 13 years. Within that time, I moved back to the Santa Barbara area and I did junior high school, special ed. So that was super fun because classes were three to 10.
[:[00:06:25] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:06:25] So when you would just teach the same thing for
[:[00:06:33] But I got to help the science teachers figure out how to work with these kids when they were in the class and stuff, because they didn't really have any or very little training. So that was actually fun. And you had learned the
[:[00:06:45] Martha Williams: [00:06:45] So that brought me up here into the Pacific Northwest, which I had been thinking of since high school and I was in heaven.
[:[00:07:18] I won't call myself a runner ever, but I just was out running and I was going to school and getting some extra credits and I wasn't doing too much more besides teaching and, getting more credits for my degrees and stuff or not degrees, but just for PayScale and enjoying the beauty up here.
[:[00:07:56] He came out with inconvenient, sequel, truth to power. [00:08:00] And so here I was in Denver. Two reason. I applied two reasons. I wanted to learn more about climate change and my son lives in Colorado. So I thought, Ooh, a conference in Colorado on a topic I'm really excited to move forward with and I can see Jordan while I'm there.
[:[00:08:38] So anyway, it was interesting to meet him and get the pure science there. But the Al Gore program, there was a thousand of us in Denver. No COVID. So we were all in this convention center together and I was blown away. I was sitting at my table of 20 with people all over. They were all from Washington, but I was the only [00:09:00] elementary ed teacher there.
[:[00:09:21] So here I was with scientists and architects and newspaper and technology and photographers and artists. So it was just an eye-opener. It's not that they were better smarter or more prepared. It's just that I wasn't used to being at a conference with that diversity lots of women as we know everywhere in the world now.
[:[00:09:44]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:09:44] But you were just feeling a little imposter syndrome?
[:[00:10:01] So I not only did my three days there, but then you sign. It's not a contract, but you're going to do some jobs of leadership and they have different categories doing the presentation that Al Gore gives you. That is actually his, that you can tweak around, and go, yep. Make it your own and do other things that you can make your own.
[:[00:10:41] Mainly they wanted you to get out there and do his presentation sounds like a pyramid
[:[00:10:51] Martha Williams: [00:10:51] spread an idea. Yeah, that's right. And he had, well-based facts on everything. I mean, he had been working on this since 2000, you know, and [00:11:00] here it was 2017 and he's got the ability and the power to get the people, to talk with him that he needs to have talk with him.
[:[00:11:25]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:11:25] I mean, he's fun memories.
[:[00:11:38] They are, they did virtual last year, but anyway, I was so hopped up. So I come back, I must have watched his presentation a hundred times and because I thought I've got to be ready to do this. I did finally to a Shawn Stern's environmental ed class. I can't say I was Al Gore. Probably a good thing. I bet you we're close now.
[:[00:12:18] I believe that's my audience of appeal and, even junior high where you can plant the seeds of the sad story, the, we can do it story and then, okay, let's do it story. So I always have a call to action at the end of the presentations and you know, hoping that and kids are motivated. And I think one thing I wanted to get into the schools, which I haven't yet, is that when you talk about earth day with kids, the first thing they come up with, even to this day, The first and only thing a lot of them can come up with is recycle.
[:[00:12:59] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:12:59] I was going to ask, [00:13:00] are there problems with recycling, like the inefficiency and the, the fact that it leaves a pretty big carbon footprint itself.
[:[00:13:16] And anybody who watches any nature thing knows, the animal situations and the Marine debris and the garbage patch and stuff like that. So I decided in 20 I'll skip a few years. There's been many little projects I've done, but I decided it was lint of 2019. I'm not Catholic to what should I give up?
[:[00:13:45] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:13:45] That's ambitious.
[:[00:14:02] I even went as far. I have cats and dogs as defined out what packaging was not plastic. That's pretty good. That's right. I was, um, you should remember ultra and, um, new balance. I think it's called new balance. That's a shoe, but I think I buy it all the time. You'd think I'd know, but it's paper. It does have the lining to it, but it's not a plastic bag.
[:[00:14:48] I started blogging at that time because I was using Facebook a lot and I'm thinking people are gonna unfriend me because all I am doing is [00:15:00] preaching.
[:[00:15:03] Martha Williams: [00:15:03] And I still continue Jeff, because my blog didn't take off to the netherworld. I thought it was interesting. And I did chart my whole journey with the plastics, with photographs and sites and all that, and learned all about the seven kinds of plastics, so I enjoy doing that.
[:[00:15:39]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:15:39] I would say that it's an incredible skill. You know, how hard it is for most people to hold onto something like that.
[:[00:16:15] Martha Williams: [00:16:15] Thank you. But it's a live alone. Ability because I'm not , impacting anybody in my household.
[:[00:16:42] There's that wonderful movie. I forget what it's called the bag. I haven't seen that one. Oh, it is fair. It's fairly old. It's funny. So where is a way they just go, where is a way Pacific ocean. Yeah. And when I see stuff flying around, or whatever, or [00:17:00] when I throw garbage away, cause I'm trying to work on zero waste.
[:[00:17:27] And so I just couldn't do it anymore. Once I decided to do that, not frivolously because in 2017, I had tried to get the city council here to vote on an initiative to ban the use of single plastics because Tacoma had done it. And at that point, Manzanita was the first coastal city that did it in Oregon.
[:[00:18:12] There's just the normal folks that are much more careful about things are thoughtful because it's out there all the time. You hear about it, whether you believe in it or not, it's coming into you. So merchant showed up, Oh, I bet merchants. And I thought, Whoa, I'm a little intimidated because I was just going to say, Hey, let's vote on this and we'll do it if I ran the world.
[:[00:18:48] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:18:48] I kind of get that. I do too. Yeah. I think we all probably can relate. do you ever feel like you're being pulled in multiple directions in your life as trying to be an ethical activist [00:19:00] and trying to take the right stance and be on the right side of history about these things that are really matters of life and death for massive numbers of people.
[:[00:19:34] I get it. I get the whole culture that's around the fishing community. Like growing up here, I was not a part of that cause I wasn't in a fishing family, but I saw it and it, I used to think I don't know. I just didn't get it. But now that I'm actually involved in that, in, in the fold, I totally understand why the fishing industry is something that is so crucial to their existence and identity because it is it's their bond to their community, to their families and [00:20:00] all of these things.
[:[00:20:28] And I was just, I don't know how to get around that problem.
[:[00:20:52] When you do go to these things or you listen to a webinar or zoom, we all have our stories. [00:21:00] And that's how you relate to people. I'm not going to sit here and read the data to you about plastics or any other environmental concern, because you can read it on your own if you want to. If you want me to talk about it, not you personally, but you know, I could do that, but I just feel you go someplace with fishermen.
[:[00:21:41] How can we make it sustainable? How can we make fishing regenerative, meaning your children and your children's children will have a job during their lives also. And so once you know that, that I care about your family and I use what your family's product is, we're [00:22:00] not on the, we're not on the opposite sides of the coin at all.
[:[00:22:13]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:22:13] That's exactly what I was hoping. You'd say, because I think there's really a disconnect between the activist community and the working community and the people who live in these areas.
[:[00:22:37] Martha Williams: [00:22:37] What you just said, made me think of something else. When you start working with the environment, there's a couple of things you don't want to save something, unless you love something.
[:[00:23:28] So that doesn't bother me though, because information. Is power. Education is power. I think what happens a lot when you talk about somebody who's formally educated like you and I are, that can, that sometimes some of the, that is self-trained or vocationally trained or went into an apprenticeship and is more hands-on and we're more, sometimes heady we've done more reading or whatever.
[:[00:24:12] But I do think you have to walk cliche in somebody else's moccasins. And I was also thinking of the indigenous people, because when you say people are doing things and they haven't even been there. They're making laws or, maybe nature Conservancy comes out and all of a sudden they're doing something to this farmer's land to make the salmon situation so that the salmon can flow in this little Creek.
[:[00:24:52] So you have to be very careful with stuff like that or going into an indigenous community and deciding you're going to [00:25:00] do something, which we now know. There's a lot of press on what's going on with a lot of the fossil fuel lines and stuff, and that's a whole other biz that I'm part of too.
[:[00:25:20] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:25:20] time to move on. Yep. Yeah, I'd have to agree. And actually the fossil fuel thing is kind of an analogous situation to the fishing thing and really it's a much broader issue that I'm talking about.
[:[00:25:49] And you really, you could expand that to include the entire planet. We're all a big symbiotic mess of molecules. And how do you get humans, which tend to be [00:26:00] selfish and egocentric? How do you get all of these little humans to see it all the same way and realize We're breaking our home. How do you do that?
[:[00:26:32] You do it as a mom. I do it as a grandma, but what we're talking here is global and yes, I can still do all my, no plastics in my reusable bags and my plant-based diet and my, you know, buy locally and see and eat seasonally. But what I've been learning now since fall of last year, it's gotta be legislative and policy.
[:[00:27:24] But when it comes sounds too, like you said, you have the big, bad body he's of the world, they can't seem to get together, hence the Congress. But I just, I don't know when, when I have a problem with the environment, I just say, what would Gretta do? Because yes, yes. From Sweden. And because back in 2015, when the first campaign with Trump was coming up and primaries in the debates I realized that I was an old gal.
[:[00:28:12] And so that's what I'm going to do. Jeff, I'm going to go with the people that are super smart, that are a lot younger than me that know how to organize that, know how to use the science-based.
[:[00:28:42] Now. I, and people say, Martha, you're too radical. You're too progressive. And I'm thinking , well, hello. You just have to be who you are and you don't have to come with me. But what I would say to everybody , don't just be part of the choir starts singing because I am preaching [00:29:00] to the choir all the time.
[:[00:29:23] I need to do something. And I don't know how you found this. Jeff, let me know things start coming too
[:[00:29:47]Martha Williams: [00:29:47] It's totally crazy. Did I want a job after I retired? Uh, no. Do I mind making money? No, but I, I, uh, I was gonna say I graduated. That's what I called it because I'd been in a school for 60 years as a student or a [00:30:00] teacher in 2015 . So I didn't want a job. And then I was around some other retired people and one of the gals comes up to me. She says, Martha, I've got the perfect position for you. And I said, I don't want a position.
[:[00:30:34] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:30:34] I do know Mike
[:[00:30:35] Martha Williams: [00:30:35] is a volunteer for the environmental ed programs through the friends group. Yes, it is. It's a grant that's, um, paid for, and then we get the volunteers for it. Yes. And so I thought, well, I'll just go in and talk to them and tell them, thank you. That is so sweet. And I love your organization. Let me get involved with it.
[:[00:31:11] And then she went on for grander things professionally. And then I became the total coordinator, the lone coordinator. But anyway, meaning that it just fell into my lap. I wasn't looking for it, but it's been. Great new people to know, and the curriculums beautifully established
[:[00:31:30] I really love Willapa national wildlife refuge. It's probably my favorite place in the world. Actually. I spent a lot of time there. I worked there for six years
[:[00:31:39]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:31:39] I was the crew leader for their Spartina program. So the noxious weed eradication program, and it was amazing.
[:[00:32:06]And it was just really amazing experience. Wow. But yeah, it's the natural beauty that's out there is just unparalleled it's, there's nothing like it.
[:[00:32:27] And I'm new to any kind of bird stuff, you know? I mean, I know that's a bird, but you know, they are hardcore. And just to learn about the history and like you said , it's a huge refuge , the diversity is amazing. So you can see just about. Anything you want to see more than 10 habitats out there.
[:[00:33:02] And they come up after class and they say, I want to be a scientist when I grow up, they do. They think I'm a total scientist because I'm the main presenter when then we break into groups. And so I love that because I'm not I never been the scientist in my family. My brother's a medical doctor.
[:[00:33:25] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:33:25] You were the abstractionist..
[:[00:33:41] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:33:41] What do you thinks behind that rhymes and rhythm coming naturally thing. Cause I have that too. It's almost like a language that my brain understands, but I don't consciously get it like the timing of music or a rhyming scheme.
[:[00:34:16] Do you think there's is something it's actually a, like a specific mechanism or do you think it's just a gift?
[:[00:34:43] So I'm thinking it has something to do with how things affect that wiring. For me, I've always liked music and dance, and I'm always wish my mom had pushed me into dance because I for sure could have been a ballerina. I am sure of it. [00:35:00] Not really, but you know, I love ballet. I always even in LA and even up in Seattle.
[:[00:35:25] They drove, they, I was drawn into them and the music behind it, it, it affects me , um, viscerally. So for me, when anything affects me viscerally, and that's what sound does and everything , I, I cry, I start physically reacting to it. And so when I'm around people and we're in one of these things, like I'm watching Phantom of the opera in, you know, the paramount theater or something like that.
[:[00:36:01]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:36:01] It's, how we're wired. And
[:[00:36:07] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:36:07] And it's It's a blissful experience.
[:[00:36:31] It's like something, it like taps into some kind of spot that's deep within deep, within a human where it's just like, that's the good button. It it's, it's really, art is a amazing
[:[00:36:53] I can truly just be not, I'm not anything I want to be, but I can just be me. I would [00:37:00] play the old woman card. You know, if I'm stupid, I'm stupid. If I, if I'm brilliant, I'm bro, if you're wise, you know, if I want to dance, I dance and nobody thinks weird. And then being the girl too, I could cry and I cry easily.
[:[00:37:24] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:37:24] Yeah, you're right about that though. The dancing, especially like I grew up the church I went to growing up was, um, very. Exuberant the church on the Hill, the church
[:[00:37:35]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:37:35] They would bring out a bear, like a basket thing, full of ribbons and scarves and set it at the front of the room at the front of the congregation, like below the stage. And, you know, full grown women would go out, you know, grab a scarf.
[:[00:38:02] And that, that church had a lot of music to it, you know, and a lot of like you sit in this spirit stuff and I have, um, I am now not within.
[:[00:38:32] I was in a church in Malibu, California. It was probably a cult and there was a university that was actually associated with this beautiful acre upon acre. Whoever was funded in this situation. It wasn't me sounds like a cold, it was a cult, but, you know, I learned so much. I tapped into things I never would have [00:39:00] tapped into like reincarnation and just.
[:[00:39:08] I I've thought a lot about reincarnation. So
[:[00:39:26] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:39:26] gender. I get deja VU, I'd say weekly. I get it very, very often.
[:[00:39:55] I wondered about that a lot too, but I kind of took more of a materialist [00:40:00] approach to neuroscience to just how we're. Basically, I thought of us like really complicated and wet squishy robots. Like it's all just inputs and outputs. Like we're just systems. Wow. I do not feel like that now. Nope. I feel like that we're more of like drops of consciousness placed in these environmental conditions.
[:[00:40:38] Martha Williams: [00:40:38] See, I learned in my thirties and since then that, you know, we, and I feel this is a luxury to, to understand that we have four bodies. We have our mental body, our emotional body, our physical body and our spiritual body.
[:[00:41:16] We
[:[00:41:18] Yes. It goes
[:[00:41:48] And so that's why if I want to save my, I would want to make myself healthy. And, and as the best I could be mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically, [00:42:00] because that's what it is to love God, because you love yourself. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who sees it that way. But I do picture God as a man.
[:[00:42:15] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:42:15] he's definitely a shape-shifter
[:[00:42:33] You're making yourself sick. Yeah. And so there's no
[:[00:42:41] Everything is just all blended together. We're in a big molecular soup. Yep. And you're right. When, if you're not caring for your surroundings and your environment and the things you depend on for life, you're not taking care of yourself. Right. And you're probably not taking care of yourself either.
[:[00:43:10] I mean, what's that all about? Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah. And I just thought, you know, We've connected in. We've all had this experience. Yes. It's affected us differently. Different things have happened to us in different capacities, but truly this brought the world together. We've experienced this time together.
[:[00:43:34] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:43:34] no. It's going to be a time period that we all talk about for the rest
[:[00:43:44] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:43:44] It'll be like surviving the great depression. Yep. Or nine 11.
[:[00:43:49] Martha Williams: [00:43:49] yeah, even more, even more so, cause it's it's global. I mean, it's, every country was, was involved in this. So, you know, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think being connected once, [00:44:00] then you say, well, D what else is connected as I'm talking to the fishermen, or I'm talking to a climate denier, you know, or somebody who says what more, thank you.
[:[00:44:27] Yeah. FDR changed our economy, literally rewrote the economy and it was. Pretty good. Except he eliminated women and blacks and people of color. But we didn't know about there back in the day, some hiccups back in 1940. So, you know, my mother being of that era, I understand racism through my mother. And then when the racism thing became really big last year, too, I mean, to the forefront again, just like climate was, it was just like, Oh yeah, there's my white privileged [00:45:00] person.
[:[00:45:24] Martha Williams: [00:45:24] Well, my brother, who's very different than me, which is a good thing.
[:[00:46:01] I didn't really, the insurrection sort of scared me a little bit, particularly when they found out since, you know, other things that were going on, but because we were watching it also for the whole day, but the, um, yeah, the protests in Portland, I think got way beyond way beyond. And I think in Seattle, so I wasn't afraid, but I was just thinking like, I think what you were saying, okay, let's be more, um, let's do something to make it better rather than just complaining.
[:[00:46:46] Martha Williams: [00:46:46] Nope. Here's what I want to say. What I, when the election was coming up for 2020 to me, climate is the housing of everything because we found out that no matter what the [00:47:00] problem is, whether it's climate or I would call it systemic racism, you know, the racism thing or the immigration thing, or, you know, the food thing, it's all related, who gets affected the most, who is affected the most by all of those things,
[:[00:47:18] Martha Williams: [00:47:18] The poor people, the undereducated people, because they can't make a living to eat well to find property where they're not drilling or they're not.
[:[00:47:52] So it was also the issue with black lives matter. I really believe that they're totally related.
[:[00:48:16] Okay. Then we realized that people did not want a politician. Hence he was the non-politician and Hillary was the worst woman candidate to run. Sorry. My opinion. I just don't feel she was the one that was going to be the one. And then in 2020, when so many people were still voting for president Trump, I then totally knew I was out of sync because they weren't trying to elect a non-politician, you know, like the 2016 thing, they didn't trust the systems were broken.
[:[00:49:06] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:49:06] How do we keep money from corrupting our shift from a fossil fuel based economy and basically world into a more sustainably based system?
[:[00:49:25]Jeff Nesbitt: [00:49:25] I'm more meaning like, so the reason that we are still on fossil fuels is because it's still making money.
[:[00:49:47] Martha Williams: [00:49:47] Or lying since the seventies with Exxon about this was going to be harming our planet.
[:[00:50:09] And we, we did lots of things in a lot more women were elected into the Congress. Those are the things we can do at the grassroots level to then vote, not to be allowing our. Government to be run by the fossil fuel industry. I'm sure there's others. There's banks because what are your investments? Okay.
[:[00:50:32] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:50:32] whole nother
[:[00:50:51] Unfortunately, people don't like to do that, but when campaigns come up, who you're going to put in, then who you put in, I have written, I have emailed Biden three [00:51:00] times already and he shoots you back the generic thing, but I talk, we talked about Jamie Herrera Butler. I mail her and I find out that she voted no on the we, the people, and it went to the Senate and that was for voter, involving voter suppression..
[:[00:51:30]Because we okay. The house the Congress and it went to but Jamie voted, no. Hmm. It was divided. No, yes. It was partisan politics. So how we need to make sure that who we put in are the people that we want in. And also those ones, once they're in our job, this is what I realized in 2015, our job isn't done.
[:[00:52:10] And so there there's ways to do that. And because of COVID, I'm not going as many places, but I am putting my car it's down and I'm reading the thing. You know, I
[:[00:52:27] Martha Williams: [00:52:27] and I don't.
[:[00:52:40] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:52:40] pretty quickly that it's a lot of work. Even just to read the bill that takes half your day.
[:[00:52:58] Martha Williams: [00:52:58] Wow. I don't know [00:53:00] if I understand data when
[:[00:53:21] Wow.
[:[00:53:38] I don't know if I'm interpreting things wrong. I probably would need to be in the classroom to know if I'm doing that. Because when you're just at home reading it yourself, you're getting what you're getting for yourself. That's such a good point. I really think just like with finances. Junior and senior high kids need to know how compound interest works and how you put money away to save.
[:[00:54:18] And some of them are too complex. I think depth definitely
[:[00:54:35] Martha Williams: [00:54:35] And it's not all just right now, you know, it's like, well, we'll just wait a few years or we'll just, you know, we don't have to act upon it. It's not like COVID. We need to do this. Now we need to warp speed. We need to get this vaccine. We need to get this done. It's done,
[:[00:54:56] It's just the flu. Yeah. People will argue with no matter what. So [00:55:00] when, so when scientists are telling the general public there's been a one to two degree increase in the over annual temperature average the lay person doesn't. That doesn't sound like shit, because they're like, Oh, it went up 10
[:[00:55:15] Yeah. Yeah. Our reference point. What, that's what you're saying, it's the scale. It's the reference points to the whole thing. And when you get involved with it, you know what that means how lethal that is. And, a lot of graphs in, and Al Gore's presentations and stuff, which I loved because they're interacting, you know, they're whoo up there on the stage.
[:[00:55:50] What happened in 1980? That all of a sudden it was going whoosh, and you can see world war II. There was a wish and you can see, and then eighties, I think it was because China and [00:56:00] India were becoming industrialized. Oh, That makes sense. Go figure. And so that's a historical point of view. So why don't history, historians would be interested in climate change, and so I just find it, it brings in so many fields of interest, it's not just one, it's not just climatology, when you're talking about people, it's all about my social science part of it too. Yeah.
[:[00:56:28] Martha Williams: [00:56:28] Well, it gets cold or it's snowing now. So , it's not global warming. We had a lot of snow. We did in the cascades this year, a lot of snow we're in Colorado. There really wasn't as much snow. I was watching both of them. And so that doesn't mean anything.
[:[00:56:59] And so I [00:57:00] just feel like an accelerating yes. And accelerating, it's kind of exponential acceleration. And so I just would, w w lifting here is hard for climate change because we live in such a beautiful place. We're not flooded. There's not, well, we do have droughts, but I mean, really not droughts.
[:[00:57:26] What the forestry has found now that the forests in Colorado are emitting more carbon than they are sequestering. The pine beetle and the spruce beetle have damaged the forest.
[:[00:58:01] And, and when I was there in 2017, when I was in the Rocky mountain national park, and I was hiking around after around grand Lake on the West side of the park, there was Rangers. They were out saw on logs and they were working a bit as I was walking the trail. And I had heard about the pine beetle.
[:[00:58:33] Jeff Nesbitt: [00:58:33] yeah, it's so weird too. Cause like some of them, sometimes it's like a big strip.
[:[00:58:57] Martha Williams: [00:58:57] Washington, then we had the [00:59:00] aphids or something here that we're doing along the roadways and stuff into the, was it spruce?
[:[00:59:16]Martha Williams: [00:59:16] My last couple of years driving from long beach ocean park every day, There are trees on that near the road that have, and could fall down.
[:[00:59:42] And Lynn Wheeldon hi Lynn. She didn't, she didn't go through it, but she didn't get around it enough. And so it poked her grill out and stuff. Yeah. I mean, damaged her car major, you know, and it didn't fall on her, but I thought, and then I think there is actually somebody who was hit by a [01:00:00] falling tree on the road up to ocean park.
[:[01:00:13] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:00:13] said, well, if they're in the right of way, the
[:[01:00:18] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:00:18] They they're, they do a real good job.
[:[01:00:41] Martha Williams: [01:00:41] I always say, buy in the winter because we're driving. Like I said, on that back and forth for the 19 years to ocean park, you would see some houses that literally had a moat around them, you know, and I thought, okay, you wouldn't want to buy that in the summer thinking you could get into it in the winter, but you're right.
[:[01:01:07] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:01:07] It definitely takes both of those things and a lot more.
[:[01:01:36]What kind of programs should exist if they don't already, that would help to bridge the gap in understanding because they both do know the problem but there are different problems and different versions of the land in their own head,
[:[01:01:49] Did you ever go to any of the salty? I love salty talks so that, that venue popped right up in my head. Well, you could get a person. [01:02:00] Two people, instead of just having one, you could start having a discussion and then the audience would be asking and responding. I just think, yes. And I I've, because I don't like to do the presentations for climate and certain things.
[:[01:02:37] Often when you have three to four people, who are talking about something like that. It just opens up and then you bring in the audience, all those people have there, there are people that, they influence a bit, so your audience would be more diverse too. And then you could sit down in that one little arena and have a mini session on how you know, and the topic [01:03:00] needs to be specific and how we can work together on this.
[:[01:03:20] She is a good advocate for the fisheries. Yes, yes, yes she does. And she does have her groups and stuff like that, but we need to meet more open. We need to hit everybody, you know, and, and have the have that open too. So we can all hear what's going on with the fisheries. I mean, it affects our lives, even though I'm not fishing.
[:[01:03:56] It's kind of catch up with you by the time. They're my age.
[:[01:04:04] Martha Williams: [01:04:04] probably yeah. Another thing.
[:[01:04:14] So most of the time it's not getting tested or anything. I've been curious about that about just like wondering if there's radiation in this piece of tuna or, or cause the Fukushima stuff continues to wash up on our beach and that was what 2011? Yes it was. And
[:[01:04:37] I think it was March 10th, 2011.
[:[01:04:59] A lot [01:05:00] of it had.
[:[01:05:03] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:05:03] this? Or I found that just North of Seaview, I want to say, wow. Okay. George Hill came up and pulled it and towed it off, but it was covered in creatures. I've never seen before. So it was really cool. I've got some really cool pictures from that.
[:[01:05:20] Martha Williams: [01:05:20] I did. Yeah. Cause, they made a thing about
[:[01:05:27] Martha Williams: [01:05:27] glowing joke.
[:[01:05:36] What would you say your superpower is
[:[01:05:41] science? Yeah, because not because I know it all, but because I really believe that's the path that everybody can walk on. But again, I was reading just recently and somebody said, well, yeah, they're reading left, wing science.
[:[01:06:00] Martha Williams: [01:06:00] science. Well, there is a politically biased. Yes, but I'm sure there is there there's anything that you ever want to imagine is out there. I'm sure. So what would you say? How do I make sure. It's the right science, doesn't mean outliers are always wrong, but when, you know, like they say usually,
[:[01:06:32] Gotcha. Because there is. Not an opportunity for people, unless they're going to college to learn research methods, which is where I learned it. And I loved that stuff. It was like hated by most people. I, it just clicked with me and it, I just liked it. It talked
[:[01:06:51] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:06:51] It's like all of a sudden you can understand these vast amounts of information that concerning, who knows how many different people [01:07:00] or experiences in a really neat package. And it's all done with really basic math using population sizes and sample sizes to understand what an effect is within a group.
[:[01:07:30] So every other type of scientific inquiry, which is most scientific inquiry is correlational or epidemiological where it's making these correlations over a vast time period. And a lot of it's based on self-report data or things that, I mean, I don't want to be too broad, but you can easily cherry pick data to make it say whatever you want.
[:[01:08:02] They can trick people who don't know what they're talking about into believing something that's completely untrue. People who don't know how to interpret that stuff. They don't have the tools they need to judge. The data. So they have to judge the source. And so they're, they're forced into a position where they have to pick somebody to believe.
[:[01:08:43] It's a dangerous situation.
[:[01:08:49] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:08:49] I do. I think people are not comfortable saying what they believe without first running it through the political filter. Like, does this make me [01:09:00] sound bad to the left?
[:[01:09:19] Um, and that's just how humans work, but it's basically, I'm looking for her for ways to move forward. I'm tired of arguing with people. I'm tired of listening to other people argue. I just think we need to accept the things that we know, which are not very many things and use our best judgment to decide the rest and on something like climate change, the scientific method is not going to prove causality.
[:[01:10:04] convincing.
[:[01:10:23] Do you know what I mean? It can't right. It isn't there isn't that there are things so Jeff, that are just a fact, I think that would be one that you could say. So then that would be what I would present. I would present things that you couldn't say. Well, yeah, I would also say to people it's experiential because I am a social scientist.
[:[01:11:01] Oh, the fish, was reading the fish thing in the observer today and the salmon season and, it's, it's up and down right. Less, more or less, more and stuff. And they really fight it and they battle it and it's their livelihood and stuff. So why is that happening? Well, it's habitat, it's a lot of habitat situation, it's not just the warming of the water and they can talk, they can show you that the water's warmed and the, and the different depths of how it, how much it's warmed.
[:[01:11:51] We have to go out of our way to read something or change the channel. And don't watch that news moderator all the time. Let's see what [01:12:00] the reality is on this moderator. It's not a bad thing to do. Yeah. It's hard because we don't like it or that's. Junk, but I mean, I don't do it often enough, but I am at least reading some pretty hardcore things on policy that I never thought I would read, you know,
[:[01:12:21] And really, like you said before, grassroots is how stuff changes.
[:[01:12:42] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:12:42] Yeah. I really think that this it could be the next big wave in communication because we now have this digital ability to connect all over the world, but people aren't using it to sit down and talk for two hours about climate change. People are in general, [01:13:00] communications are short and it's just, you know, get the information across to this.
[:[01:13:13] Martha Williams: [01:13:13] than zoom. I can see your whole physicality. It's just it's a wonderful experience.
[:[01:13:25] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:13:25] of these conversations are happening over enough time, the right ideas are gonna make their way to the top. Like hopefully people will cause if w if we're saying something, we make some kind of a claim that's completely wrong.
[:[01:13:38] Martha Williams: [01:13:38] You better believe it. I would want to know. I wouldn't want to give out anything wrong. Exactly. I have a tendency to exaggerate statistics, so I don't cite them too often. I just give them gestalt. But I do think that the conversations and you're right being much older than you, you know, everything short and sweet, like text, text, text, even quick email or something like that.
[:[01:14:18] Yeah, I
[:[01:14:52] Martha Williams: [01:14:52] refugees, it, it is a truth when you cannot farm your land in the center of the [01:15:00] quatre area, you have to leave that and you go into the cities.
[:[01:15:08] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:15:08] And the people who have the power to get out ahead of these problems are usually the last ones to be confronted with it because. They're protected. They're there they're usually wealthier or positions of power. And so it's easy to just ignore problems until they're right at your front door or
[:[01:15:26] You know, you have a hard time convincing people here who are a bit of deniers anyway, that there is a problem with climate, that there is a problem with the economy. It's hurting people because of climate. People are out of jobs for this and blah, you can't blame
[:[01:15:42] It's like, why are you trying to ruin my day? Get out of here, lady. I don't want to hear about the world.
[:[01:15:52] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:15:52] but cause they have to want to know they have to want to talk about it or it's just really awkward.
[:[01:15:56] Martha Williams: [01:15:56] is. And I, that's another thing I've tried to be [01:16:00] good about learning. You're not going if people don't ask you. They don't want to know. You know, I can say what I say and I try not to make any of my friends feel too bad. I send them things sometimes, or if there's a bill that they could write a comment on, because it's that important to the world, to me, not to me, Martha, to the global situation and to the local situation and they can do what they want with it.
[:[01:16:41]Have it in front of you and then if you don't want to do anything with it, that's okay. But I do think it's important to have the information available. And that's what I would like to be is the source, not the expert, but a source of the information on where to go to find the answers or what you want to do with it, or how do you get active or.
[:[01:17:05] Martha Williams: [01:17:05] Clean energy would be not fossil fuels because fossil fuels and natural gas. So clean energy would be Evy cars, clean energy would be solar and wind. And some people say nuclear, but then the rural purists would say, no hydroelectric, hydro electric.
[:[01:17:41] Geothermal all geothermal is cool. Yes. Yes. And some people like nuclear, but I don't, that's just a personal opinion. It's not because I'm an expert in it, but you know, they're very expensive. They are a little bit scary. And what do you do with the waste product?
[:[01:17:58] They
[:[01:18:13] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:18:13] Hanford. No, I have not.
[:[01:18:20] Martha Williams: [01:18:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, we know what, you know, we just continue to groundwater.
[:[01:18:34] Martha Williams: [01:18:34] and these things.
[:[01:18:51] You didn't even know that occurred. Yeah. It's like new on a documentary to me. So I [01:19:00] excuse and understand when people aren't as like adamant as I am or get as excited as I do about something.
[:[01:19:11] Martha Williams: [01:19:11] Yes. Yes. Yes.
[:[01:19:20] healthy that is not die from it, but your grandchildren are going to be wondering where all those species
[:[01:19:28] Martha Williams: [01:19:28] well, and they, my brother, I think he just feels it's more natural evolution and what what's gonna go is gonna go, okay, Martha, just get alive.
[:[01:19:50] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:19:50] come up unless all life dies well. Yeah.
[:[01:20:00] [01:20:00] They'll be. I worry about the, the phytoplankton. People want to embrace the, you know, the J pod or the Orca is, and me too, but I'm more into algae and phytoplankton because it's the base. And that's what I tell the kids in III. I said, yeah, it's hard to go hug that sometimes or a microscopic diatom or something like that.
[:[01:20:29] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:20:29] or in water. Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen those? A tardigrade the water bears? No. Oh, they're adorable. You should look them up. If you get a chance, tardigrade, it's a little microscopic creature.
[:[01:21:05] No
[:[01:21:22] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:21:22] yeah. I recently read this book called range. Uh, I forget the author, but that was the whole premise of the book was based on that.
[:[01:21:34] Martha Williams: [01:21:34] that part of that. Sorry, but I
[:[01:21:48] 10,000 hours. It's like the golden number. And then, uh, people really took it and ran with it. And it's true. So like you can there, the evidence is there, you can look back through history and trace these people [01:22:00] who are great at whatever they did, whether it be Mozart or tiger woods, they started early and they put in their 10,000 hours to become an expert.
[:[01:22:30] And you can even take those same examples of successful people from the first like analysis and. Look deeper into their lives and see that they probably were actually focusing on other things too, and that contributed to their mastery of their specific sport or
[:[01:22:51] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:22:51] reference point here to adapt, to change out of necessity?
[:[01:23:07] Martha Williams: [01:23:07] like, so you would survive where the other person would panic and die or something that would, or could
[:[01:23:12] Grit is another way I think of it. People who have grit and are like, you just do what you gotta do to get by, to develop a lot of skills.
[:[01:23:34] That's why I was wondering about the flexibility part of it, because my brain moves really fast and that's why I jump all around when I talk. And then I lose my train of thought, because I'm thinking ahead, when I'm also in the middle of the, now I did that in teaching a lot and I was like, Oh, okay, gotta come back.
[:[01:24:11] And I'm no I'm supposed to, but it's not in my plan. I'm not, I'm not doing. And I've been called on that rightly so by people I travel with or people that know me well. And I thought more than you got to kind of give that up. Sometimes you're missing the boat because you just got to fulfill your plan. I don't know about that.
[:[01:24:51] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:24:51] yeah.
[:[01:24:53] Martha Williams: [01:24:53] So I know what OCD is because Jordan's so has it. And then I reflected on me and I thought, [01:25:00] Oh gee whiz. You know, I know where he got that from, but I never ever turned myself that kind of person until you saw. Exactly. So that's the most fun thing for me about biological stuff is, is to see that, well, you will say, Oh my God, but she is who she is.
[:[01:25:36] So it is fun to,
[:[01:25:51] Martha Williams: [01:25:51] he took it. He took yours.
[:[01:26:00] [01:26:00] Martha Williams: [01:26:00] You like it? Uh, he's your kids. I never seen Amelia in person, but so you're an Elsa, Elsa. Yeah. I've seen them because of ocean park school, because we were running around there and I really enjoyed watching. And then I saw, sorry, just nanoseconds in the fourth grade. So that was fun. And Elsa has just she's the runner.
[:[01:26:20] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:26:20] is, she loves to run. She's fast too. She had a growth spurt this year, so she's gotten quite a bit taller. Um, so I'm, I'm excited for when her track or cross country gets going again.
[:[01:26:32] Martha Williams: [01:26:32] And you know, those, that data, because Joe Williams was coaching with Jordan and, and John Hayes. And that whole group was in, uh, in the fourth grade and he was timing the kids on, um, their miles. And in fourth grade a good time, of course, things get better. I mean, not to say Jordan or John were the, the best of the best.
[:[01:26:57] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:26:57] round. Else's still,
[:[01:27:03] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:27:03] up to a certain sports expert earlier,
[:[01:27:08] Do a hundred mile thing, this Dan, he does, he's done a 55 and he does trail marathons. He doesn't do it. Yeah. Cause he really it's mountains. He's Colorado. And uh, he doesn't the speed. Isn't where it's at. It's it's the experience. So, you know, he, trains did because he has to have the elevation gain and down and everything, but, and he and his wife also did a, uh, hike, a solid hike on the Colorado trail for six weeks.
[:[01:27:36] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:27:36] dog. That's crazy. That's one of my bucket list. Things, not that trail specifically, but
[:[01:27:46] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:27:46] writer. I remember
[:[01:27:57] A lot of places.
[:[01:28:04] Martha Williams: [01:28:04] I think he, he gets put in leadership roles because he leads by example, not by word. He, his mom, his mom's, the talker and, and Jordan, it's not that the, mom's not the doer, but you know, he's just quiet about that.
[:[01:28:23] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:28:23] he lets the results speak for themselves. Yeah.
[:[01:28:31] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:28:31] Yeah. He's he's he's an old soul. Yeah,
[:[01:28:40] He said it's probably the nicest thing he could have said to a kid's mom. He said, you know what? Martha Jordan got the best of you and Joe. Cause Joe and I are very different, but we both have our strengths of course. And I thought, you know, what, what a nice thing. If a kid does get the best of both his parents or her [01:29:00] parents, I thought, wow, because you don't want them to get the other side, which of course they get,
[:[01:29:04] That tends to get the best and the worst. It seems like. Um, so what does Jordan do for living?
[:[01:29:24] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:29:24] administration. I think that was the last time I had heard.
[:[01:29:33] Yeah. At a, at a college. So be in the college and do college sports. And so then he got his master's up in Northern Colorado up in Greeley and he went into sports, um, administration it's still, and he was doing facilities and, uh, events up there. And he really liked it. Talk about being working every day, all day.
[:[01:30:12] That was an interim position. And so they hired out and he didn't get the full time there. So Jordan who got most of the things he wanted and he worked hard for him. It wasn't like here, Jordan here, Jordan, all of a sudden in his early career, wasn't getting that next level. Okay. So then he went into a nonprofit for the water Alliance heritage.
[:[01:30:56] But he got a second interview and he's with now he's [01:31:00] with natural resources in Larimer County. So he gets, and he always learns the lay of the land. Hence he could do the six week hike. He loves maps. He loves going out. He loves recreation. He knows the area, knows the watersheds. He's a good tour guide. He can do all the administrative management kind of stuff.
[:[01:31:28] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:31:28] So wow. Sounds like a good
[:[01:31:34] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:31:34] and outdoors pretty compatible, but not
[:[01:31:39] We didn't backpack Joe and I were older when he was little and we weren't getting out. We would hike and run of course a little bit,
[:[01:31:47] Martha Williams: [01:31:47] that St. Joe didn't run in height, but Jordan fell in love with the mountains. Not that he's not a water boy. So I think the mountains just, and he can't get enough of it when the wildfires were there this summer.
[:[01:32:20] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:32:20] data West coast was bad. Um, that that's something that, okay.
[:[01:32:35] Martha Williams: [01:32:35] climate well, and because we've kind of infiltrated where we shouldn't be living. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. Forest fires
[:[01:32:45] So if we go 20, 30 years without. Any forest fires and just let all that stuff acumen and then the drought,
[:[01:33:05] I mean, I don't mean to sound horrible, but I feel sad or for the habitats, all
[:[01:33:12] Martha Williams: [01:33:12] nother, you really killed that whole thing. It's gone. Not you, but. No, we
[:[01:33:19] Martha Williams: [01:33:19] we killed it. I feel, I feel like we were responsible. I do feel that I am responsible for other people's healthcare.
[:[01:33:44] But I really think we can learn so much from them and how they deal with habitats in life and the sanctity of the environment.
[:[01:34:08] You would definitely care a lot more about building a house than you would about protecting the forest. You'd cut down some trees like you would, you would do these things. It's, it's rational to make these choices. You don't see that these small choices, one tree multiplied over, you know, decades and decades and, , over generations and generations, they accumulate in cost, some pretty horrifying effects.
[:[01:34:48] So we can be convincing to certain amount of people or what we're saying. They have seen happen. So we have that credibility, but you know, people listen to who they listen to and who they [01:35:00] give credibility. And I, I know if their values and beliefs. Are different than mine. We can have a conversation, but I don't know how we can come together on uncertain things if they believe a certain way, you know?
[:[01:35:38] I've got that covered so I can travel. We didn't get to talk about my travels. We'll do it again sometime. Oh no. For another time. Cause that's, that's a wonderful journey and I didn't do my travels to be a climate person or to find out about that. I did it because I wanted to put my feet on the ground and really see the world.
[:[01:36:18] Yeah. I don't want to travel that alone. I. I live alone. So when I travel, I don't want to travel alone. Yeah.
[:[01:36:34] That's not embedded with meaning when you're by yourself, you
[:[01:36:52] So those are the two big trips I took that were
[:[01:36:57] Martha Williams: [01:36:57] about that. Yes, we will talk because that's something that is a [01:37:00] whole, and I wouldn't mind, I made a little PowerPoint of that and I certainly could embellish it because it took a lot of pictures that I showed to a group of friends last year, they asked me to watch, I didn't bring it to their, their soiree and say, guess what?
[:[01:37:17] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:37:17] There's probably a lot of a
[:[01:37:22]It just looks super healthy. That's awesome. And it's the weirdest thing they have 12 hour days always. And it's always a little cool in the morning and then up to 70 degrees at night. That's exactly, it's weird though. It's weird. Very reliable, reliable. It's really close to the equator, right? Yes it is.
[:[01:38:01] And I thought I was like Alyssa dating too. I mean, really? I think I was really disclose too much. Nope.
[:[01:38:19] Martha Williams: [01:38:19] really easily.
[:[01:38:38] Oh, I'm always a fatal
[:[01:38:42] Martha Williams: [01:38:42] I just figured you're 30 feet done. Yeah. And yet. I've watched, you know, wonderful things like the octopus teacher,
[:[01:38:53] Martha Williams: [01:38:53] and Sylvia Earle, who does a mission blue she's 80 and she's still diving. She [01:39:00] does hope spots to reclaim and restore underwater situations around the world.
[:[01:39:19] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:39:19] want to know how he holds his breath for five, five, 10 minutes.
[:[01:39:27] Martha Williams: [01:39:27] plus he's in colder water. That's what, I couldn't understand the breath holding and how cold that was. I'm thinking, well, I'd be dead, but I mean, I couldn't do that. I would freeze. There would be absolutely no way. Yeah. I think
[:[01:39:42] Martha Williams: [01:39:42] What's it? That 10,000 hour thing and he got good at it. And then your body does get used to things
[:[01:39:56] Martha Williams: [01:39:56] after finish your pores and yes, it does
[:[01:40:06] It's just a, it's like provide some contrast should do
[:[01:40:14] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:40:14] Awesome. It makes my hair so shiny. Yes. That's nice. Well, Martha, my dear, we've done it. We've done two hours. Thank you so much.
[:[01:40:24] Martha Williams: [01:40:24] more than a pleasure. Thank you so
[:[01:40:30] and I look forward to you coming back next time to tell us all about the Galapagos
[:[01:40:34] I will, if you want me to, because that is a place that everybody should go see, it is the most amazing place I have been so far.
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