Episode 32
Daddy Issues: A Holiday Special featuring The Fithen Sisters with special guests
Dads. We all have at least one, somewhere. Many of them are amazing role models, but some provide a great example of what NOT to do. They all add something to the mix. They have one of the most difficult and rewarding jobs on the planet and on this episode I wanted to get into what it means to be a dad. Why is it so important? What are dad's doing right? What are they doing wrong? How is this generation going to improve on the last?
As a father and a son myself, I love talking about family relationships, despite the strong aversion that I have noticed in many people when I bring up the topic. Familial bonds are so crucial to healthy functioning and development and they can get messed up so easily. I wanted to do a podcast that focuses on the good stuff. So I invited some special guests into the studio and we talked about dads. I brought in multiple perspectives and we get to hear some personal dad stories from some of my favorite people.
Guests for today's episode include (in order of appearence):
Amelia Nesbitt
Luke & Bridgett Binion
Michelle Binion
Melissa Nesbitt
And Jeff Nesbitt Jr. (my dad)
This podcast came out different that I had planned and I think it is great. You never know what people are going to say in here and sometimes it can be very surprising. So please get comfortable and enjoy this special episode of Ramble by the River.
Love you guys,
Jeff
Links:
Business inquiries/guest booking: Ramblebytheriver@gmail.com
Website: Ramblebytheriver.captivate.fm
Facebook: Jeff Nesbitt (Ramble by the River)https://www.facebook.com/jeff.nesbitt.9619
Instagram: @ramblebytheriver
Twitter: @RambleRiverPod
Youtube: https://youtube.com/channel/UCNiZ9OBYRxF3fJ4XcsDxLeg
Music Credit(s):
Still Fly, Revel Day.
Transcript
Father's Day NEW
[:[00:01:14] [00:01:00] how's it going? It is Saturday, June 19th, the year of our Lord 2021. And it's a great day to be here. It is the first official Juneteenth, a brand new federal holiday. That we just got it's brand new guys, fresh out of the oven. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It is exciting. What's that you say, but we haven't had a new federal holiday since 1983, when Martin Luther king Jr.
[:[00:02:07] I, I can't take that back. I can't make somebody teach it to me in the past. I can't take a time machine back to 1997 and make my teacher tell me what Juneteenth was. She probably didn't even know. But the important thing is we're correcting that now. And we are teaching our kids about it. It's a thing it exists in case you didn't know, Juneteenth celebrates the emancipation proclamation, which effectively ended slavery in the United States of America.
[:[00:02:59] So my [00:03:00] only question is how has this not been a holiday forever? It almost seems like there's some racist stuff going on. Like maybe there'd be people who wouldn't be so happy if it was a federal holiday. I think it's obvious what happened. The black community wants to have all the fun holiday just for themselves black culture, just like Kwanzaa.
[:[00:03:34] You've had your fun black community. It's time for white to celebrate, uh, as much as I love that joke, I do think it's probably kind of risky, but the truth of the matter is who cares, why it's taken so long, let's celebrate now, it's here now let's unite as a human race and celebrate this fact that some people made a really good decision a really long time ago and let's keep making good decisions moving forward.
[:[00:04:17] I'm just trying to look for the positive. You know, every cloud has a silver lining and in this situation it's really easy to see. So I think this is great. It's a victory for our country and I'm excited about it. I think it's a step in the right direction. The bill passed the house on Wednesday with a vote of 415.
[:[00:04:59] Who [00:05:00] knows? He's from Tennessee, Andy Biggs of Arizona, Tom, Tiffany from Wisconsin, Doug Lamalva of California. That sounds like a name of a Hitman Tom McClintock of California. That one sounds like a, like a detective with a drinking problem and an eighties movie. God, I remember Clint talk. Didn't Hara McClinton talk.
[:[00:05:27] Mike Rogers of Alabama, Matt Rosendale of Montana. Ronnie Jackson of Texas, Ralph Norman of South Carolina, Andrew Clyde of Georgia chip Roy from Texas. He sounds like you worked since. I don't know either. You're like a garbage man or he works for a street paving business shit, bro. Asphalt Chis, and Paul Gosar of Arizona.
[:[00:06:10] I'm sure there's also some chance that it could have been a fiscal concern. Like the fact that letting everybody have an extra day off from work, it's going to cost the government millions of dollars or some shit like that. That sounds like a cop-out to me, but I don't know. I'm not a fiscal analyst. So who knows, as we all know, the most important thing a father can do for his children is to pass on wisdom through the generations.
[:[00:06:54] Another cook. Where'd you get the first cookie? It was on the stove. [00:07:00] Oh, was it good? Yeah. Good. Emilia. Do you know what Juneteenth is? Never heard of it. What would you like to learn when it means another cookie? It's funny that you ask Juneteenth is a federal holiday in the United States. As of very recently.
[:[00:07:41] Did you know that Lincoln, but yeah. Do you know what slavery is? Slavery is when a long time ago, people used to take other people and make them work really hard and never let them go home and not pay them any money. [00:08:00] Yeah, it was really horrible. And Juneteenth is when they celebrate the end of that legal practice.
[:[00:08:23] why not because can you imagine what it would be like if we had to live at somebody else's house and we'd do all their work for them and we didn't get any money, that'd be terrible. They used to do that to people and they don't anymore. It's a good thing. You can't go down the doors shut. Oh, well I better shut it.
[:[00:09:13] Do your mapping and I'll find somebody else. I will be on the cat podcast. Is it clean up here? Oh, that's the issue, huh? Well, males, you got any more questions about Juneteenth? It's brand new holiday. Should've been holiday a long time ago. I don't think I even learned about it till I was in my twenties. I don't know why that should have been way earlier.
[:[00:10:01] [00:10:00] Come on. Hey, well you could just got to listen. You just got to educate yourself. Come on. You're three years old. It's time you got with it. Are you mad at me now? Yes. Did I insult you? Okay. Okay.
[:[00:10:44] Well, I'm trying to educate our daughter and she doesn't want to do it. I been missing your meals. Okay. Milia. What'd you learn today? Daisy? Get outta here.
[:[00:11:15] Amelia. What'd you learn today? What'd you learn about Juneteenth? Come on. We just talked about it. You told me what you learned.
[:[00:11:57] Well, that's because Juneteenth, wasn't a [00:12:00] holiday when I started this and now it is this week. I decided to just kind of put it in here too, because that's exciting. So you got a double holiday episode. That's awesome. You're welcome. The reason I wanted to make this episode is because, you know, I make fun of my dad on this show occasionally because he can handle it.
[:[00:12:48] Like I also like to talk about some of the harder shit that I went through as a kid. And that, you know, that's just part of what made me who I am. And it, it doesn't [00:13:00] mean that I I'm carrying, you know, any kind of resentment towards my parents or anything like that. I didn't have the easiest childhood, but I also didn't have the hardest.
[:[00:13:31] Things can get really bad in a family. And it doesn't mean that you have to stop loving each other. That doesn't mean that you have to stop having a relationship. It, it just means that you guys went through some shit, but if you keep working together towards relationship building and things like that, it will improve.
[:[00:14:05] So I owe them a debt of gratitude and I'm happy to, I'm happy to pay it. Okay. Find us on Instagram at ramble by the river. On Twitter at ramble river pod and on Facebook at ramble by the river, we have a brand new website just launched@ramblebytheriver.com. I'm excited about that. It doesn't have a whole lot on it yet, but swing by and check it out, click something, get those numbers up.
[:[00:14:51] It will be the place to be. So get ready for that.
[:[00:15:26] I'll stop beating around the Bush and just let's get into it. So without further ado, please enjoy this collage episode that is specially made for father's day and features some of my favorite people.
[:[00:15:43]Did you do that? You know, like Jeff brought that pistol, um, with him on the last time you meet him, swearing, dad went on a date together. Several. Yeah. I had a rifle too. Doesn't mean two guns. [00:16:00] Well, yeah, I guess several gun was used during world war two or something.
[:[00:16:09] it's kind of cool, huh? Yeah. I have you put the candle up there now. Try to create a nice environment to people actually want to hit sit in my car. It's not like you want to make it. I have a flashlight because of a little the gun and he has a flash it's like, you don't want to make it. So nobody wants to come in here and sit.
[:[00:16:55] This place has definitely changed. Yeah. I mean the walls weren't even like this. Yeah. Yeah. [00:17:00] The walls are definitely changed. .
[:[00:17:01]. Um, one time I got out of the shower and I heard my mom listening to your fucking oh yeah. It's probably weird. Huh? Huh? No, go for it. She started laughing because she thought something you said was kind of funny.
[:[00:17:29] Any only caught a pregnant knew that must have been a big one. Just a pregnant new
[:[00:18:00] . , that reminds me one time. I still actually do, but I still want to go to a camp, a summer camp that's for like a week or something. And, , I really wanted to go to the camp and I was really excited because I was going to be able to go with how old I was and I would be able to go this year, but because of COVID then they would only allow third graders.
[:[00:18:58] I like it in here. [00:19:00]
[:[00:19:34] And then he said it didn't owl. And he said, well, it's an owl. Cause he's cause it's a real big fan of owls. Really? I will house that. He's going to put up because you guys take turns. Oh, we heard, he told us that he's gonna put up several. , what looks does miniature outhouses? Um, [00:20:00] absolutely. , houses for small birds of prey.
[:[00:20:27] Um, my brother actually just heard an owl outside. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. This week. Have you guys noticed how much bird activity there's been? I know. I mean, on the way here, I saw a Robin in somebodies yard. Yeah. I, I saw it. Those have been so loud. They're like every morning I wake up to Eagles, I saw Bluejay that my dad, my Papa really doesn't like, yeah, there's blue Jay.
[:[00:21:08] You ever hear it Tammy? Next time we see one. . It it'll be really good for me because if I hit it, with a Slingshot they don't know if I'm ready to kill bird. Before I get my Hunter's permit. He'll know, I'm planning to get my plan to get my hunters.
[:[00:22:02] Maybe you get one of those. Ooh. That'd be like saving nature. Oh yeah. I'd love to get a dangered owl, even in your backyard. Animals. Speaking of endangered animals, I reminds me of polo. Oh man. Sad. Yeah. Not that many left. Their home is shrinking because it's getting too hot. You know, who's going to solve those problems.
[:[00:22:44] You know, how old are you? I'm 32. Hmm. Um, okay, so real quick, each of you just in like a few sentences, tell me why your dad is the best. Well, I think he [00:23:00] kind of pushes me sometimes to, to get me to be good at something really quickly.
[:[00:23:25] Yeah, those times I wish I had, um, uh, elbow knee, so, yeah. Bridget, what about you? I think our dad is really good because I liked that he really wants to help nature and see if, what he can do to be able to help it. And I think he's really kind with helping other people, if they can't do something and he wants to be able to help them.
[:[00:24:27] Yes, please. Would you like Pete white, orange spice, Blackie or Bigelow? Peach. Ginger, let's go with the peach ginger. That's the one I like too. Did you paint this? I did. Yeah. Is this like tape lines? Yeah, tape the whole thing and then basically drew it and, and then painted it. Very cool. Super fun. My grandma used to do that with us and we were a little, she'd take art [00:25:00] classes at the Shaun in a Wako and then she would host her art classes with her grandchildren.
[:[00:25:19] Cause if she didn't know an answer, well then I have all these encyclopedias or I can have , Carla, look it up on the internet. Like she was learning something all the time. That's probably what's your state. So sure. I think so. I think it really helped her mental capacity. So docu is, are supposed to keep like cognitive decline at bay.
[:[00:26:00] so I did one time , it was on my birthday, and it was a legit company, or I thought it was, but, um, and then right after we made the deal and everything, and I charged my credit card, I got the paperwork and I looked at it and there's, there's no mention of any of the perks and the lady I was talking to to finalize all the trip planning and stuff like dates and stuff, didn't know anything about any of that.
[:[00:26:29] And those are ramping up really big with the pandemic because people are legitimately like, concerned about it. And it's like, we're not even legally allowed to disconnect you right now. Like the government has to mow whatever they refer to proclamation still in place. Like we're not doing disconnects for non-payment.
[:[00:26:57] Bitcoin mining forum.
[:[00:27:13] Like it'll show up in billing audits. And so we'll have to justify, or we have to look into why that usage is so high, but I don't know, like us in customer service are not calling the Sheriff's department. So I'm not sure how it gets escalated. Yeah. Yeah. I've been thinking about both dads all week and I have stories ready, but I just kind of figured that it would happen organically. Yeah. Do you want to go, usually goes that way,
[:[00:27:54] Yeah. I talk with my hands a lot, but I don't think they touch, so it's probably show I won't be snapping or anything. I [00:28:00] snap for emphasis a lot. Usually when I'm talking about something happening fast. Yeah. I I've, I've noticed that I just do that and I have to go back later and cut it out.
[:[00:28:20] Welcome to the show today. We are joined in the studio by Michelle Benyon. She's my sister-in-law. And she's going to talk a little bit about her dad and her other dad. Probably go ahead. Thanks Jeff. And thank you for having me. I have two dads. Um, my first dad is Dan Fithian, who, uh, married my mom. And like, I'm probably gonna butcher this, but I want to say 1981.
[:[00:29:12], but unfortunately we lost him when I was 19. I'm so sorry. It's interesting when you lose someone at that age, cause it's such a pivotal moment. Like it's a very impressionable time of our lives. You know, I was starting my freshman year of college and um, I remember thinking even if I did lose him because our relationship had been so strained throughout my upbringing, that it wouldn't impact me very much, which was very foolish, very, very foolish because it's been, I mean, life altering in every possible way and it gets almost harder as we get older because you think of what that relationship could have been and that they, and the other relationships that could have developed from that, if he was still here and healthy, he could know my children and your children and, you know, be a part of our lives.
[:[00:30:20] And that's hard to especially, cause there's all the baggage of like, just relationship trauma that you carry with you that you, you will always carry with you cause he's gone. So you don't get to resolve it. Or, I mean, I guess you could, you could forgive and that those things, but you don't get that resolution it's just pulled out from under you.
[:[00:30:58] And in [00:31:00] reality, like I didn't learn that he wanted to be there, but didn't really have the support system or the ability to be here until after he passed away. So a lot of that reason movement and anger and abandonment that you feel like regardless of the sub, like the amazing support system that we really had, you had a lot of hard feelings towards like this person that you still need it and then they're gone.
[:[00:31:43] Like, I didn't have time for this. And then two weeks later he passed away. I, oh, I'm so sorry. That was such a hard memory. I feel like that that could be a crushing blow to like anybody where like, if you, if you feel like you're getting [00:32:00] squeeze every last bit of connection out of the last interaction that you had with the person before you lost them.
[:[00:32:31] Like you're a kid and really, I think you probably right. You should go hang out with your friends when you're 19, and it's really hard to talk to your dad. Who's got all these issues and drama and stuff, and you're just trying to start over. There's a lot there. It's happy. Yeah. Yeah. And it, thankfully like now, I mean I'm 36, so it's not, it's not a fresh wound, but it's still very much an open wound.
[:[00:33:15] Obviously, that being able to like resolve those emotions of having a contentious relationship with someone that's not physically here and like letting go of a lot, cause it's not, you can Harbor resentment or anger or whatever you want, but he's not feeling that. I mean, that's just weighing me down and, and also having to learn that I can love two dads because a lot of my upbringing, you know, I have my second dad who we refer to as our Papa who came into our lives when I was nine and married my mom when I was 10.
[:[00:34:09] And so, especially not my parents or people that are caring for me in return. So I think that I took that on myself of like having to cross that divide. And it was really easy to just when I was mad at him to just be mad at him and just kind of block them out. And unfortunately that didn't give us a lot of space for a relationship before he passed away.
[:[00:34:50] And that again was just like false communicate. I mean, we weren't communicating it healthy and it was wrong. Like we, we needed both of them and it would be great [00:35:00] if they were both still here, but I'm super, super grateful, obviously that we do have a father figure that we as in our daily life and he is the one that raised us.
[:[00:35:28] Exactly. He's very, very helpful. And I, I, when I do this, I try to make it a really big point. Anytime that this shop is in use it. I mean, it's a working commercial crabs shed, right? Yeah. It's not really a podcast. Like he's, he's so quick to try to facilitate everybody else. Like, he tries really hard to make sure things around him are running smooth and that we're good.
[:[00:36:15] Um, I gotta go buy this tool. Yeah. And I don't know where that comes from really, but you don't want to be an inconvenience or a burden. Yeah. The relationship, I don't want to be a drag on somebody. Yeah. Like I, like, I make it seem like that you feel entitled to that tool or something. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
[:[00:37:01] Oh my gosh. Yeah. He'd never been married before. He didn't have biological children. He had some long relationships, but like his home was notoriously a bachelor pad and then it turned into a family home and he used to jokingly say, but with so much love that we were a package deal. Like he, if he was taking my mom, he was taking us to, and it was never like a, you have to get babysitters or, you know, the girls are too much like welcomed us with open arms and we used to.
[:[00:37:46] And then of course, oh, it was perfect. I was like, and he would say, I'm not trying to replace your dad. Like, he was very upfront with that. So much to the point that when we had issues with our biological dad during teenage years, we were [00:38:00] considering changing our last name to Hanson. And then, um, you know, we didn't end up doing that because we did, we again, felt like that was being disloyal to our other.
[:[00:38:34] So I don't know what kind of an upbringing or example he ever had as a father? Um, not to say that that justifies him being kind of absent, but yeah, like he was learning firsthand how to raise girls or to even participate in that. And then when he saw Papa join in, so naturally, like he didn't hesitate to come to a piano recital.
[:[00:39:18] And it wasn't until just in the last few years that I actually learned that you can live with both. I mean, you don't have to get depressed and then be happy. Like you can manage both and it's okay to be sad and happy at the same time. It's human. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very real experience. Absolutely. And it's really hard to put into words.
[:[00:39:57] And he is very like, he's insulted when someone [00:40:00] refers to him as our stepdad, because he he's much more than that title entails. It does seem a little reductive. I don't love the term either. Yeah. I don't blame you. I just, it's really more of just an additional bad yeah. Yeah. And the stepdad does seem like less, the more people that love you the better like that.
[:[00:40:37] He took really good care of us and he had Huntington's disease. So he passed away quite a while ago now, probably 15 years ago, but, um, which was horrible watching him deteriorate. But, um, yeah, I was actually thinking about that. When you were saying the thing about the red Robin and rushing off the phone.
[:[00:41:21] That's tough. It's so tough. Yeah. Yeah. Even when you know that they're passing it, doesn't get easier. There's you always want more time. And even though it's inevitable that everyone you love will die. Like that's never enough time. It gets easy. No, the thought never really loses its sting. No, not all, not at all.
[:[00:42:04] And I do feel that he is very much still a part of our lives. I know that. And it does give me support that Jake knew him. Like Jake has memories of his own memories of him growing up in this community. And our parents were friends and we'd go camping together and stuff. Um, and so I feel very supportive whenever I'm having a hard dad moment or a hard dad day that he understands that because he, there's not a lot of explaining to do, but it still stings when that the kids don't know.
[:[00:42:47] And, and so, I mean, those are traits that like, I want him to know, like you don't, you might not run like your dad, but there's still DNA in you. That's not too far from. Like who you are now [00:43:00] that he just doesn't know. I didn't care so much about my genetics when I was a kid, but now I find it fascinating.
[:[00:43:28] The probability is too high that it's touching on both sides. It's not there yet. And it's none of the fun mental illness, multiple personalities or anything. It's just like a bunch of depression. Addiction. Yeah. I don't want to go in there. Yeah. And my dad had an addiction to drinking. I mean, alcoholism definitely played a part into why he wasn't able to be as present as he probably wanted to be.
[:[00:44:07] Yeah. Yeah, big guys. I mean, your dad was huge. Your aunt was huge, right? Your dad was probably not a shrimp, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Great Danes feeling lipstick, I guess. So. Yeah. The gentle giants that have demons inside. Yeah. But it's, it's been so wonderful having Papa, uh, to give us that just unconditional support.
[:[00:44:48] In a lot of ways. He probably is part of the reason why I don't have an addiction to alcohol. Like, because I had that stability in my daily life, even though it was lingering within, you know, my dad right outside. Yeah. [00:45:00] Yeah. That's like the quote Melissa said when she was in here, um, the greatest gift a man can give a woman is the greatest gift a man can give his kids.
[:[00:45:32] I was, I mean, and it's funny how many of those memories don't even come back to you until you're raising your children then? And it's like trying to discipline the you out of your kid is not an easy thing. And especially when it's things that I still find myself doing, but, um, but yeah, we put him through shit and he was the dad that was stomping up the stairs in his underwear to yell at us for being too loud.
[:[00:46:09] I don't care if you're getting in the front. I was like, sorry. And we just went to pizza and that was the end of that. He didn't want to deal, but, but yeah, my Papa is the one that like on my 12th birthday, there was a Willapa bay opener and we went and gillnet for 24 hours, which when I told Sawyer that story.
[:[00:46:42] And we were tied up to another boat while he was visiting. And, and so I'm this chubby 12 year old thinking, I'm going to get some sun why we have the net laid out and my foot went through the hole. So my ankle caught and I immediately flipped upside down with my head, like deep being, just above the water [00:47:00] and bapa cores, like shit, you know, I'm sure there was other expletives in the gums and pulls me up by my feet.
[:[00:47:22] I don't like doing hard labor. I don't like get, I mean, it's entertaining to some extent, but it's not something I would ever pursue it for a longterm. I love going on the boat for a day. Yeah. But I'm not as a career. No, I love that. He made me breakfast and I could like sleep in as long as I wanted to because I was his daughter, not as actual Deccan.
[:[00:47:57] It was just like, this guy wants to spend time with me [00:48:00] and. So much to children, like, yeah. You just want to spend time with them. That's the most important thing. Talk to them, just got to ask them what's going on in their life. Cause it's not like he came into the relationship with a bunch of knowledge on how to deal with teenage girls.
[:[00:48:19] he wasn't yeah. Podcasts. Weren't a thing back then. He wasn't listening, reading about it online or anything. And so he just was winging it, but he just loved us. Like, I mean, it was just the, having that showing up and being supportive, no matter what endeavors we were trying to pursue, like every dream I ever accomplished between teenage and twenties was because I had the foundation that my mom and Papa gave me that without them.
[:[00:49:05] Like he's no joke. Yeah. And then all of a sudden these walls just go up where you can, you have a lot harder time breaking through like getting to know a seven year old on a personal level versus a twelve-year-old. Especially when you're in a position of authority is a completely different ball game.
[:[00:49:45] Yeah. To be like a 35 year old bachelor that suddenly just going to put on the dad hat and take it. . Yeah. And then create this family with these grandchildren and these son-in-laws who like love and respect you too. And I mean, it's just like that there's no [00:50:00] bad blood within any of us. And that was always one thing.
[:[00:50:25] I mean, he was losing his brother then. And so it was just, he regretted that time that was lost. And we heard that repetitively of you need to always be close with your sister. You always, you always are gonna need your sister. And I never needed her more than when he passed away. I mean, it was just, and then it was like the, no shit.
[:[00:50:59] Oh, for [00:51:00] sure. We've gotten in some shitty. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Some, but I mean, I think we're closer now than we've ever been to because we're doing the same thing at the same time. We're in the same aspects of our lives and we're not, there's no competition. Like there is when you're a teenager either I'm not stealing her clothes anymore.
[:[00:51:35] So Melissa didn't go to school at nine. She would lay out her outfit. I would then put on that outfit and wear it to school. And there was one incident where she showed up in pajamas still. And she was like, intentionally, but take off my clothes. And one of the teachers actually called my mom at work to complain that Melissa and I were fighting in the lobby.
[:[00:52:12] Yeah, I bet. Yeah. I bet Melissa was easy to pick at, as a sibling. Right. So I didn't like thinking back on the upbringings. Cause my dad wasn't an off, like he didn't yell at us a lot, but he would yell and Papa isn't much of a yeller. I mean, he'll holler to get your attention. Yes. He's I think he's hard of hearing, so he's, you know, projecting, but he's not angry about it.
[:[00:52:56] And so going from a younger childhood where there was fighting to, [00:53:00] uh, you know, adolescent, teenage years where there wasn't as much, it's like it calmed us without us knowing. But I think, yeah, just being able to like, just talk like just, you know, sometimes I shut down a little bit because I don't want to hurt the feelings of the people that I just got upset with.
[:[00:53:36] Like I'll, I'll try to do that where, um, Super pissed about something very specific. And I'm just like, I would really like to address this and I feel like I have it all planned out how I'm going to be calm and I'm going to say it this way. And it, I think I'm doing that. And then I realized by the faces of the people I'm talking to that, no, you're actually screaming in this child's face.
[:[00:54:14] So you got to find the middle ground somewhere where. Use a little bit of that fury for get your point across without letting it be. You don't want your message to get lost because be firm without being like a rage. Yeah, exactly. And that's a, I mean, it's not easy to find that. Yeah, no. Especially when you've got kids that are intentionally poking at you see sometimes they're very, very smart.
[:[00:54:59] And [00:55:00] isn't that what it's like for everyone. And then at the older you get, you realize that's not like we, we hit the fucking jackpot man. Like we got so lucky that he chose us. And I feel the same way about you that like, when Melissa was dating that small period of time before you guys got together, there was a guy or two that would, you know, cause she was really careful on who met the kids anyway, but will can't you just get a babysitter?
[:[00:55:40] I really I've said that before, but I love being a dad and I have just like always had a longing for it. Yeah. And I found him that's so one, and we're so lucky that you found us too, but I feel the same way. I remember being in college my freshman year and the, my math teacher asked me what I wanted to be like, she [00:56:00] was calling us out individually.
[:[00:56:17] I mean, I'm, I'm proud of, to my education. I'm grateful that I even got into Western. Like all of that was wonderful for me, but ultimately like my life goal was to have children and interesting that people would consider those two pursuits, uh, mutually exclusive. Like you can't do both. Yeah. I, I mean, I went to college just for knowledge.
[:[00:56:52] So I could just volunteer in the class all the time, because I love that you make jobs out of everything. Yes. Where I would just be the over extended [00:57:00] probably. Cause I feel like even on my days off I'm busier than I am when I'm at work. Yeah. But yeah, like I love my kids. I don't want to miss anything. I don't want to miss anything that your kids are doing.
[:[00:57:27] Cause I definitely dropped some of those as a teenager. Yeah. Yeah. You're ruining my life. I'm going to ruin their lives. Yeah, that's impressive. Because like I said, Melissa, never, I tried. And then it was me like rebelling against her. And then it was, you know, cause my mom knew some of the stuff that my mom knew, most of the stuff that I was doing and that it was like, not that she was even okay with it necessarily, but she wanted me to be honest with her.
[:[00:58:12] But yeah, I definitely rebelled against Melissa more than I'd be able to run against my mom. Like I did it to piss her off, like, yeah, I'm going to come home. Hi, just to piss her off. And she's like a mom, sister. She very much was. Yeah. Especially for only being two years apart, but she's kind of a mom wife.
[:[00:58:43] And I was the baby that they tried to keep stuff, friends. So I didn't really know the weight of that until I was older of how much responsibility she placed on herself. Like keeping me in line. Yeah. I was talking about that with her of just like the different experience of those years between you and her very different experiences.
[:[00:58:59] Yeah. It's [00:59:00] hard. It's her story is not going to match yours. Yeah, exactly.
[:[00:59:26] Like they add a lot to your memories and they subtract other things. They're trying to create a cohesive narrative that fits who you see yourself as it's not always accurate. Yeah. . .
[:[01:00:00] And even when they were married. Cause you know, like I said, he wasn't super hands-on that, , that, that we were missing that like, I, I always felt safer when my dad was there. I mean, my dad, like you said, it was a huge guy. He used to hang from his biceps and he would pull us up in the air and, and even Papa, he wasn't doing that with me at 12, but like I still always felt a sense of security when he was around.
[:[01:00:47] He wanted to create these humans. He loves them. He hugs them. It's not abnormal, but like it is abnormal. Cause not all dads are like that. And not all men are capable of touching into those sensitive sides. And so when you see a dad [01:01:00] that's crawling on his hands and he is with the kids are playing catch in the yard.
[:[01:01:29] Yeah. Hasn't been, it hasn't been a great history for you guys, but, but, but again, there's so many good people that are white men or men in general that I think that, because that that role can be so negative or so absent that when it is there, it's just so valued. And do you want to talk a little bit about toxic messages?
[:[01:02:08] And I don't know what would be a good adjective for the good part, like benevolent masculinity or productive masculinity or some something that would separate those two concepts because toxic masculinity is something that is damaging. It's something that has arbitrary rules and expectations about who you can be.
[:[01:02:48] Right. We got to make sure to still have men in our society who are powerful leaders. Like we, and that's not to say we got to keep women from those positions. No, but they can [01:03:00] both fill those roles correctly. There's enough room at the table. There's good parts about being, uh, about masculinity. How do you avoid transferring or allowing those toxic parts to develop in yourself?
[:[01:03:32] And usually it's some sort of trauma usually based in fear. People are just trying to protect themselves. Yeah. And they, a lot of people are really terrified of things they don't understand. And a lot of people believe the bullshit of this is what you're supposed to do, or this is what you're supposed to be.
[:[01:04:10] And I just try to like, hold onto him and let him ride. I ride them with him and I try to be very honest with him on like my experiences with big emotion, because so much of that was withheld from me as a kid. Like I thought I was the only one getting really sad or I thought I was the only one that was feeling anxious because no one told me that they were talking about it.
[:[01:04:45] That's definitely a tool that you want our children to have in their pocket for sure. And I didn't have it in mind. It took me a long time to even kind of let go of my own stigma about, about therapy. [01:05:00] I could go, even if I'm not mentally ill. Oh yeah. I can go when I'm having a good day. Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it's going to still benefit me.
[:[01:05:23] Yeah. But we talk a lot about what we're feeling and trying to put those feelings into words. And sometimes you can't find words. There are times that you don't want to talk about it and that's okay. You can have your time to process it, but you don't need to lash out on anybody else until in the meantime and try to punish everybody for how you feel.
[:[01:06:02] He, you know, I didn't mean to, I didn't, it was just this knee-jerk reaction and you don't laugh when you get hit. That's bad sportsmanship. I mean, and so we still regularly have to go through those conversations, but I think making it routine, it's getting a little bit easier as he's getting older where it's more instinctively for him of like, I wouldn't like it.
[:[01:06:45] And you, you notice it with kids a lot because they're just so raw. Yeah. But like, you'll go watch a playground. You'll see a lot of kids exerting dominance over other kids in various ways. Girls do it a lot more socially, but with boys, like [01:07:00] I never know when I should step in to draw the line because I want boys to grow into strong men who are, who are not afraid of conflict, who are ready to speak up when there's injustice or who are having integrity and honor, and all these things that are so important and part of masculinity.
[:[01:07:44] Yeah. And, and where to draw that line because you want them to be competitive or to be able to be, but maybe with some grace, you can still be kind and like, and be a strong competitor. You can still be successful at something without putting someone else [01:08:00] down. And those are things. Cause you know, he's an avid reader and like, just because some of your friends or other classmates don't read as strongly as you do, or don't like reading as much as you do that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them either.
[:[01:08:35] It's weird. It's like being a human is a trip, man. It's uh, yeah, sometimes I'll go off on a thing like that. That's kind of like a gray area topic. And I look over at the kids halfway through. I'm just like, they're humoring me. They're not even really listening. Um, and I hope someday that there. Going through their pursuits and trying to figure this stuff out on their [01:09:00] own that they'll remember this conversation and they'll be like, okay, that's what he was trying to talk about.
[:[01:09:23] Teaching them to be kind. It's like learning how to wheel the good joke. Jokes can be so hurtful, really bad. Probably the funniest ones. Like you gotta really be careful what you let them get away with. Cause sometimes the joke will just kill. Uh, and somebody's over there crying. You don't really want that.
[:[01:10:04] Oh yeah. Yeah. You start to believe that that's how you do it. And then by the time you're an adult, you have no friends. Yeah, exactly. I've been loving that. Lucas is like, or Luke is like, your baseball bat has been so joyful watching him be joyful playing baseball because he. Adamantly hated it. Hated it. I remember Melissa retelling the story of when chase, when Sawyer were down on the beach, just trying to be like nice, bigger kids.
[:[01:10:48] And then he was thrilled that it was canceled. I think he might've been the only child that was so happy that things were shut down because he didn't have to play bass. So we told him, you know, if you don't want to play anymore, no, one's gonna [01:11:00] make you, if you sign up, you have to stay through the season.
[:[01:11:24] Um, and he goes, no, I think I can do it. And he's having a fucking blast. He is loving it and he's succeeding. Like he's improving every game and yeah. And it's making him like such a better person, which not, it's not that he was a bad person, but I told him that like, because of course he has his first big hit out.
[:[01:12:05] And then my brother Jake hit one right directly after and both. I mean, they were really just a lot of errors and we made it all the way, but we just talked about it last week. I was really into it. That's experience. Yeah. Yeah. You feel actually, yeah, that's funny. That's funny. Yeah. That's actually really sweet.
[:[01:12:42] So people say hi in a grocery store when they may have not before I feel way more connected than I did a year ago, which is nice. Yeah. Especially coming through a pandemic, that's actually really fucking impressive. Yes. What I needed was that, and that was the kind of the catalyst for this show. Starting was just like, I got to talk to somebody.
[:[01:13:22] Just like feed me conversation. I'm gonna lose my mind. Yeah. And I'm, my head is full of thoughts all the time and it was, I just needed to get some of them out and onto another person. Well, it started working. Yeah. I don't think I would have done it if the pandemic wouldn't have hit really? No. Cause I've thought about it for years and it just never seemed like a pressing issue, but I always pictured doing it.
[:[01:14:05] Yeah. And it's become a really fun thing. So I look forward to the whole week. It's nice. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming out here and talking about your dad's. This has been really, really pleasant you're my brother-in-law and I love you. It's an easy conversation to just have, but, um, but yeah, , I felt comfortable because I knew that the topic would be my dad's and I could yes. And knowing what those boundaries are. Um, but yes, this is definitely outside my comfort zone. Cause I feel like the pandemic especially has made me really dig more into my introverted side
[:[01:14:41] Jeff Nesbitt: [01:14:41] yeah, it was a lot for me
[:[01:15:11]to come in here
[:[01:15:25]
[:[01:15:50] But anyway, my dad gave me that. And there were times where having a fisherman dad was really frustrating [01:16:00] because you're, your life is not on a normal schedule and unpredictable weather and yeah. Vacations get canceled or postponed. It was never clear whether he was going to make it to my volleyball game or not.
[:[01:16:41] You like consistency. Yeah. It definitely probably taught me to be more flexible than I wanted to be naturally. Um, and so I always said like, I'll never date a fishermen. I will never marry a fisherman. And then you birthed one. That's the thing you just can't predict it. I didn't [01:17:00] marry a fishermen, but I made one.
[:[01:17:22] It's wrong. Do it. Oh, but you're a straight a student and all you want to do is be on the water, but I'm just like, he'll, he'll use that brain for something good. Yeah. So yeah, I could see, I mean the, the fisheries need people to speak for them there. And this generation of fishermen are going to get old.
[:[01:18:15] He started getting on boats at the age of 12, which is how old Sawyer is now. He didn't have a dad to kind of like guide him along. He had a connection through an uncle, but really had to work his way up. So he ran boats for other people until he had enough money to buy his own boat. Now he has this small fleet and he is really proud of that.
[:[01:19:00] We named it Sawyer after my son, his first grandson, which I think my mom is okay with because the Carla Marie and her mind was this big crab boat. How does she she's I know she's fine with it now. How did she feel about it at first? I because she was already in grandma mode by then knows the love. There was very little.
[:[01:19:47] And I remember John de Massey was the boat polar at the time. So fishing the boat for my dad and he would come ask Sawyer, is it okay if I take your boat out tonight? And so I would give him permission, [01:20:00] but he really feels like that's his boat. Um, so I want to make sure that he earns it and that he is not just sort of like inheriting.
[:[01:20:38] And, um, I'm just so grateful to him as a grandpa. I'm grateful to him for everything he did for Michelle and I, and he. I just always loved us so much and, um, saw us as his daughters and he has so much pride. It's when I hear him talking about us to other people that I'm just like, [01:21:00] oh my gosh, he's wonderful.
[:[01:21:27] Yeah. During gillnetting season. It's it feels like that eventually after a few weeks of it, I'm just like, well, don't let him go anymore. Just to make them hang out with us for like, just like a day he's gone every day. Like he'll, he'll, he it's like he's working a real job. Like, and it started, I mean, when I came to the picture, he was already doing that like several days a week at certain times a year.
[:[01:22:14] My idea was to have several different people, tell a quick story and put them all together. But, um, a lot of people don't want to do that. And I'm not sure if that's because they have, I mean, I know some of them, the reasons, but I dunno, it was, I was surprised me, honestly. I thought people would be like, oh yeah, I would love to relationships with your parents are tricky.
[:[01:22:57] She was probably 16 [01:23:00] and she had this little red Toyota Paseo, which is a very small two door, little. The sports car of Toyota in probably the early nineties and we were going to pizza and he really had a fold himself into the passenger seat of this thing. Like the chair was completely reclined and the sunroof is open and his arm is out the passenger side door and I'm in the back seat behind my sister, just like really crammed back there because he's taking up the front row and the back row.
[:[01:24:03] No thirties. Yeah. I think we saw that one picture of him in that box of stuff where he's like has a large beard and there's like chest hair coming out of the top of his Jersey. And I was like, was he in high school for this? I don't think maybe actually he was like 20. It still wasn't here. We're just like they went on for awhile back then.
[:[01:24:49] I love singing and I love people who love to sing. It's it's takes a vulnerable person. Like it feels very open and exposed to sing. That's why a lot of people don't [01:25:00] want to do it. I don't, it's it's hard. But, um, when a big burly like guy, a big masculine guy is okay to be vulnerable and even goofy or silly.
[:[01:25:41] Um, so it was always this like head to head. They were bred to be like fighters. And, um, I think Bob was actually a very good fighter. My dad was more of a gentle giant. He used his size. There was always jokes about his friends kind of [01:26:00] getting into Michif just like talking a big game or starting bar fights.
[:[01:26:31] Yeah. I feel like if some, if I needed to like defend myself and fight somebody, I do. All right, you got plenty of black powder hidden away in there and just waiting for someone to light a match,
[:[01:27:10] And she said that she called it the Barbra, um, some something had to do with Barbara, your grandma. Yeah. But, and I totally related. I was just like, oh my God. It's like, No Melissa, your whole life. Yeah. I don't know if anybody knows if you two together. Probably. It's interesting what my sister and I got from my dad.
[:[01:27:53] You want me to holler at this before? Like where I thought you were five. I, for some reason I always wear heels. Huh. [01:28:00] But yeah, I'm five, five. My sister is low, closer to five nine and my cousins are all quite a bit taller and um, yeah, the fifth and we're just all over six feet. My grandma included and um, and very dark.
[:[01:28:46] His, how he identified himself was like through athletics or working with his hands. So masculine. Yeah. So by trade, I don't think he was doing a whole lot academic, but just going back and reading [01:29:00] things that he wrote when he was younger. Cause I have this bin of things of my dad's. He was very smart.
[:[01:29:28] Yes. Yeah. Well, and it, his upbringing, um, was very reflective of the dad who raised him. His dad died. He had a heart attack while clam digging. When my dad was 15, was he there? And I don't actually know. I wish I knew these things, but I don't, it was something my dad never liked to talk about. He died on Valentine's day Valentine's day was like a sad day in my family.
[:[01:30:29] Um, my uncle Bob was like a little, all American. He was not little, but I think little school, all American, I guess he was a hell of a football player. I've heard that. Um, so I think he would have been a different person if he had been raised by just his mom who played the organ at the Lutheran church.
[:[01:31:17] But that just wasn't your gauges put this like sports hat on. Yeah, but you like musicals and that kind of stuff a little bit. Yeah, I do. Do you, my sister would grow up to become Maria in the sound of music. Um, she won awards, but I loved her more. I don't know about my dad, but my grandma, Margaret certainly preferred her when she was around.
[:[01:31:56] I was way more a Sawyer. My sister Esther was [01:32:00] goofy enough for both of us. I don't know why, but I was felt like I needed to keep her in check and like Wrangler in childish. Oh my gosh. Such a Sawyer though. Right? Um, that's how he acts now. And then my sister just, I have, I was terrible to her sometimes, but she really went out of her way to just annoy the shit out of me.
[:[01:32:48] Uh, uh, bullying Amelia, even that's thrown that term around a little bit, but when they're just being mean for no reason, and there's like, there's a certain amount of that. That's you gotta just let it [01:33:00] happen because that's, that's kind of how the kid learns. Like sometimes people are just dicks for no reason and you gotta, you gotta be able to expect it and really maybe just let it roll off you and not let it be a big thing.
[:[01:33:30] Right? So when my dad was growing up and he and his brother were fighting, there would be like some form of organized, like, all right, then you're going to fight it out safely. And like, here you go. And like letting them throw punches, which I can't imagine doing if we had another boy. Yeah, I would, I would, I would picture that happening sometimes.
[:[01:34:17] I don't regret, you know, like play wrestling. I don't regret any of that. I don't even regret really burying him, um, up to his neck. And I don't so much regret handcuffing him to the steering wheel of that old car in the parked in that field. But, um, cause I came right back, you know, I tortured him only a little bit.
[:[01:34:58] And then later you just [01:35:00] feel icky. Yeah. You can't make people laugh with anything other than hurtful stuff then you're just not funny. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I don't know. I was pretty serious. I grew up with the Knicks though and my grandpa Eddie, my mom's dad was also a big part of my life and he was really funny and teased us all the time.
[:[01:35:44] They're confusing. It's like, what is this, what am I listening to? When does the show start? That is literally how I felt the first several that I listened to. It took a bit to get used to it, or it's just like, so they just sit and talk. [01:36:00] That's it turned on one of those where you're like unwrapping candy or looking for the Skittles.
[:[01:36:29] And sometimes those Skittles get left in. You're like, I love the Skittle part. I liked the Skittles part. Yeah. That was my favorite part because it was serendipitous. I didn't plan it. That's what was great about it? I said the thing about Skittles when I was in my car at the beach, and then I got back to the studio and there was Skittles sitting here waiting for me that I had left the other day.
[:[01:37:15] The fourth. I, I w I thought Stanton net had a real nice ring to it. Stanton, net, Jeffrey. The fourth, we call her Jeffrey for short. No, I, I didn't consider, even if I had a boy, I wasn't, I was going to let the Stanton tradition end just mostly because it's just so cool that I didn't want to have to compete with my own child for coolness.
[:[01:38:01] They'll still call me Jeffrey too sometimes. And I'm fine with it. It's a term of endearment. If you call me Jeffrey, I better love you because if I don't, I now hate you. Okay. Because you call me something that you're not welcome to call me. And, um, yeah, I'm just kidding. I don't hate anybody, but I don't like being called Jeffery by people who I don't know.
[:[01:38:45] Like, it's just part of, part of the package, but yeah, like people at the DMV or the library, they can call me Stanton because that's what it says on the paper. They're just doing their job. How would they know? Did you feel closer to your [01:39:00] dad because you have his name? I don't know. I only have my own experience to go by, but I think that probably, I remember when I was young, especially, and he used to dangle the birthright, um, in front of me and just, you know, let me know that I had the advantage as the first born.
[:[01:39:44] And we did probably connect on that name thing because really him and Jake are really compatible as personality types. They've always been super tight just automatically because they're into the same stuff. They share a love of cars. Yes. And I, I [01:40:00] love cars too, but not in the same way. Like they do.
[:[01:40:27] But, uh, I never took that bait because he kicked my ass even now as an adult where like, I'm definitely stronger than him. And if I just met him for the first time as a stranger, I would have zero questions. Like, oh yeah, I better protect this saddled man. But as my dad, if he's going to come at me, I know I better be crafty because he's got some moves.
[:[01:41:33] And to acknowledge that there are fundamental and UN and inherent differences between boys and girls, which I think is not allowed anymore. I might already be canceled just for saying that, but I, uh, I do think so. I think that I need, I'm going to have to work a lot harder to protect Elsa than Sawyer.
[:[01:42:09] I wanted to go on my summer, break from college, make a bunch of money so that I didn't have to work during the school year while I was taking classes. And boys that I had graduated high school with were going up and making tens of thousands of dollars in a summer. And I just thought, I want to do that.
[:[01:42:50] You're up there for six weeks. It's hard, fast fishing, and you come home with a lot of money. If it's a good season, charter fishing and he'll walk go is day [01:43:00] trips. You're not overnight. And it at the time was seven days a week. And you're dealing with tourists, tourists, not fishermen. 5:00 AM mornings. A charter boat is really there's one skipper and generally one deck hand, and you have eight to 10 people on the boat, I guess 12, maybe 14.
[:[01:43:40] It felt like a performance when I got good, because I could net two salmon in one on one scoop and, you know, tourists will be like, wow, that's great. Um, and I got to be pretty good at that or decent enough efficient. Yeah. And so that was one of those like, yep. The girls can keep up with the boys, look [01:44:00] at that, but he didn't take me to Alaska.
[:[01:44:28] And not because I don't think he's qualified or there's just like, everything is right. It checks all the boxes. And if he's going to be with the most experienced person, he's like, everything's the way it should be, but I'm still scared about it. Um, just cause he's just, he's our little guy and it's, uh, it's hard to think about.
[:[01:45:23] He knows how to maneuver it. He knows all like the, just bits and pieces. He has worked this vessel time and time again. And he is not on the Sawyer in Alaska, but he knows the trade he's been on multiple boats. He's got experience on the ocean. Yeah. So that's what actually, my dad was just talking about, um, you know, hiring new people and just like Sawyer has a lot more hours than a lot of guys who are in their twenties.
[:[01:46:25] Yeah. I mean too. I, and I think it'd be really hard for people to, and I think it will be hard for people to understand how we could let him go. I know that there are people that are just like what? Um, and then there are some people I've had this conversation with the parents at baseball because he's giving up his chance to play his last summer season of all stars.
[:[01:47:10] Well, he was 16. It's like, okay, that might feel a little better, but it's that same thing he's going with your dad. Your dad knows what he's doing like that. Just trying to trust. Yeah. That's the thing is like, I just pictured myself when I was 12 and I wasn't, I wasn't, I wouldn't have been ready. I wasn't ready at that age to go to go that far away from my mom and yeah, I just I'm, I'm nervous about it, but I, I think he'll be safe and I just want him to also be happy.
[:[01:48:04] But the safety thing worries me. And I'm just like trying really hard not to miss him already, but I'm know I'm going to miss him so much. That's not the part that's getting me though. I just really want him to be safe. It's a very dangerous fishery. And we know that. Um, but it's like what he wants to do.
[:[01:48:51] He's not out there on dump day. He's not out though. They're on those like peak, peak days. Um, but we do you're right. We let him go crabbing. Yeah. [01:49:00] And I, and your dad is known as like one of the safer, more cautious captains, like he's gonna, he's gonna be okay. We also know that while boats go down here every year, there's also fluke accidents, like in the bay, which isn't known to be a dangerous place to fish.
[:[01:49:46] We happen to be immersed in that world. And I don't know. I think that, I think we're doing okay. I just, I'm [01:50:00] scared. My parents were really good about supporting all the things I thought I wanted to do my sister too. Yeah. And we've talked about that. My parents set my, sent my sister to Alaska when she was in middle school.
[:[01:50:42] And let me go. And I just feel like I, my job is to support him and I, there's no way in hell I would send him up just to crew some random person's boat. But it's like, this is not that it's my dad. And I, [01:51:00] they have had this thing in the works for so long. That's where I shot myself in the foot when Sawyer was made.
[:[01:51:26] You can smoke when you're 12, not till you're 12, but it didn't. I smoked well before that same thing. Right. But like, yeah, not yet, but when you're 12, when you're 12 and then my dad had like a crew member, um, her, I don't know which year I'm talking about, but there's been a couple of years where he needed someone last minute.
[:[01:52:07] He grew and he worked and like he's given up like birthday parties and like camping trips with friends and just like social engagements with people, his own age to hang out with his Papa. And it's because he's trying to put in his time he has had a goal. And so if he hadn't done all of that and work toward the goal, it's like, we gotta light you.
[:[01:52:56] And, but I came into this when he had already [01:53:00] started this project. And so my gut job as his dad is to, to help facilitate who he's going to become. And the man he is going to become as a fishermen. And so I'm going to help him. It's been funny because he doesn't give you any credibility for having been on boats or knowing your way around boats.
[:[01:53:41] And, uh, so I have a fair amount of knowledge of how to do these things, but never fishing. Fishing is a thing I know nothing about other than the fisheries. I was on some salmon recovery boards. Um, so I guess I know a few things about fish by Sawyer standards. Uh, fishermen is somebody who [01:54:00] lives that life is in it and I'm certainly, yeah.
[:[01:54:39] And he was w like, happy to tell me about boats. And if, if he happened to make up some shit, that was not true. I just started letting him teach me. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. I never knew that about boats. And so I would start asking them questions about both knowing that he's never had any experience with this specific kind of like, what's [01:55:00] that boat all about?
[:[01:55:33] Those memories are golden for me, I think back on him. So fondly, because he's, he's just, he's a teenager now practically, and that little boy is gone, but yeah, he's still in there. He'll still tell you a thing or two, I find myself reminding him though, thinking about, um, yeah, some of that, like I, sorry, I worked on the ocean every day for two summers.
[:[01:56:22] So many depressed kids. It's, it's ridiculous. Like looking at the data on social media engagement and how it's affecting our youth, scared the shit out of me. So I'm, I'm trying really hard to just be involved with the kids' emotional health. So I'm asking them maybe too much how they're doing and Sawyer has either.
[:[01:57:15] Yeah. They text in Snapchat. They have this group called the boys and I look at it from time to time. And a lot of it is dumb stuff like about Mexican avocados and they like put a bunch of emojis. It's, it's just it's kid's stuff or 12 year old boy stuff. Yeah. Nothing concerning. There's nothing pornographic.
[:[01:58:00] [01:57:59] I have, um, been aware of him deleting things that he was afraid. We're going to get him in trouble. Good man. So, but, uh, you know, I'm like glad for that. But the other thing is he has this app that tracks both. Uh, huh. And he can see where, yeah, the airplane one, he hasn't been to the boats. He just got into an argument with my dad the other day about somebody who had already headed to Alaska.
[:[01:58:53] and then he hops on his bike with his life jacket and he's like, I'm going to the port. But back to the [01:59:00] things, you'll let a boy do as a dad, not a girl is we, um, we let Sawyer put in his life jacket and ride to the port and check out the boats coming in. We don't let Elsa do that. Yeah. And I, I don't even love letting Sawyer do it now is, I mean, 12 for some reason is a threshold that, that was important to me.
[:[01:59:39] It's not hard. Um, I mean it would be. I haven't done it. I got to cut that out.
[:[02:00:21] Like we're animals, but we are, and girls are just a hotter commodity than boys. It's sad, but it's the truth. I don't know. Oh, this whole podcast is terrifying me. Sorry. I'm like you're feeling the dad thing. Yeah. I just wanna, I just want to be able to protect our kids all the time and you just can't. No, it's, it's an exercise in learning to let go.
[:[02:01:09] That's terrible. He caught, he was not okay with us smoking cigarettes. He knows that it's bad for you. Um, he caught us doing w he caught me and Jake smoking cigarettes one time, and I think he was going to do the old, like, make you smoke the whole pack thing. So you never want to do it again, that negative, uh, attribution or negative association.
[:[02:01:53] But yeah, fuck nicotine. I've never had it. Oh, you'd love it. Not bizarre. [02:02:00] Yeah, not really. No. At the time I was coming up and through everybody knew how bad it was for you. I've just never touched it. It's it's gross too, but it does, uh, it does work really fast. And, um, so I could see how it's so addictive. I smoked cigarettes for like one summer where I, and I would smoke a cigarette on the way to work and I'd smoke a cigarette after work and it didn't feel right.
[:[02:02:53] It makes you think faster. It's a nootropic. Oh, it facilitates cognitive [02:03:00] improvement. I feel like now we're promoting cigarettes. So you should cut that out. No, I'm not promoting kids. Don't smoke. It's not, it's not worth it, but if you do want nicotine, there are ways you can get it without ingesting tobacco.
[:[02:03:41] I'm just driving around trying to get people to tell me a story about that. Yeah, and it can be a funny one or it can be a touching one, or it can be a whatever you want. But if you feel like, tell me a story, the first couple that come to mind, I'm not going to tell every single person that said that.
[:[02:04:20] But, uh, we're after driving through the desert, we stopped shotguns for awhile, hanging out. It was a hot summer day and we're coming along and there was a bunch of these young people, which dad referred to us. Oh, look at these fucking hippies. They must have ran out of gas, dumb fucks. You know, as we're pulling up, she hollers out the window and smile says, Hey, you guys, are you tired of walking?
[:[02:05:13] Yeah, well, it was the last day of school. When I was in the ninth grade, my stepbrother Kenny was graduating and he had this read called the Batmobile. It was a 59 Dodge and it was all customized and stuff that made it until I can El Camino. And it was really cool. Never quite finished, but it had a 3 83 Mopar motor in it, automatic.
[:[02:06:00] And there's 38 Connie. And I tell everybody don't throw anything at this guy. Don't he'll shoot us. You know, don't do it. And this girl, she picks her name was crystal. She grabs her balloon and she hucks it is he's going by and we're going opposite ways. And it flies and hits his windshield and shattered.
[:[02:06:45] He ended up, he worked for, with this gal's dad, um, railroad, and he ended up paying for the window. We put a new where it was flat glass. It was no big deal, but yeah. And we [02:07:00] knew how to change it. So, but it was scary. It was scary. Oh fuck. Harry comes. Yeah. I jumped out of the back of the rig and took off running.
[:[02:07:38] And he's always kind of done that. And then if you contradict him or he interrupts you and you just keep talking, he just starts screaming. And, uh, nowadays I just turn around and scream right back at him. You've seen me when I'm real mad. I kind of. Froth the mouth and I lunge and I feel violent, [02:08:00] you know, and I've seen it in his eyes.
[:[02:08:28] Like you took care of me for 20 years. It's not really Jeffrey. You kind of took care of yourself from the time you were about 14 long. I mean, you're really, I've done plenty of pointing out all the way. No, when the shit hit the fan and you want a job, you know, listen, I have done enough. You realized at that point it's like, Hey, these people are fucked up.
[:[02:09:15] No how much I appreciate it, including that some of the shitty stuff. Cause it's, it's made me a person with some character and some one wasn't funny stories to tell like it, I do not regret a thing and that, and I meant to say this the other day when I was on the phone with you, they're like, I feel bad when I know that you're you don't want to be the butt of a joke because only reason I can make you a bit of a joke is because you're the toughest motherfucker.
[:[02:10:24] Think about the challenge that you took on basically fucking kid. Like you were 19 years old when you got married, right? Well, no one 20. I was 20. Yeah. I was still kidding when I was 20. Yeah. I mean, I, there's no way in hell I could have started that. I tried when I was 23. Yeah, well, there's a lot more to it than your age, you know?
[:[02:11:18] Sometimes it is. Yeah. I just want you to know that I do not think of you and mom as failures in any way, shape or form. And anytime I talk about the shit that that didn't go the way that was planned or the way that most people expect it's because I liked the way I turned out. And I think that people need to see that it's part of the journey and it's not, it's not a straight line.
[:[02:12:09] And it, I, I never marked one out of the red bag. Well, you give me one I'm wearing is probably way too big. Uh, it's too short for me, but I don't want my belly hanging out the, uh, but my point is like, you've never hesitated to give everything you could to, to help your kids. And you can cut yourself some slack for the fact that you happen to still have some of your own personal demons.
[:[02:13:11] Sometimes you even know they're bad when you're doing it and you're thinking like this or whatever, but it's not all right. It's not, you got to follow your conscience, let your conscience be your guide. And I'll not give you a bunch of cliches, but that's a good one because your conscious will tell you if you're doing good or bad and I've ignored mine a lot.
[:[02:14:02] It is just going, I'm just you're right though. You know, life gets complicated. I could see your life's very complicated. Yeah. It is more so all the time. So don't, don't get in over your head, man. It's hard to know. Cause all of a sudden it all comes crashing down on. You got it's like, ah, shit, what am I going to do now?
[:[02:14:59] Like [02:15:00] she knows that that's the way you're supposed to be to put yourself last, be humble. Yeah. On the, and I don't always do that. I try as best I can. But on the other side of that, you taught me how to not let the world walk all over me and how to secure my safety and my position and my family before anything else, and to build a platform to be able to grow from.
[:[02:16:02] Yeah. I, I go out of my way not to do that. Yeah. It turns off. That was the problem I was had with church is so much of, it was so much posturing and power tripping and all that stuff among people. It seemed, you know, and it was, I don't know, I resisted. So, you know, mom was at every church function and involved and everything else and I was involved in what I wanted to be involved.
[:[02:16:54] I mean, we played a lot of that game where you hit each other with balls of tape and [02:17:00] we love learning all about the history, Egypt, the kiss of death. Yeah. Yeah. The, uh, yeah, just, yeah, that was, that was fun. People are always so shocked when they found out I was teaching Sunday school and I'm like, why would you think that was weird?
[:[02:17:30] It worked another thing that you have to think like your kid to hang out with kids, you know? And I, I think I, a little kid, I got that from you and mom, both. You both are so good with children. Oh, your mom's so good with grandkids. It just blows me away. I was knew she was going to be, yeah, always. Yeah.
[:[02:18:16] Yeah, it is. It's I never really had much in the way of moms, but I, I had grandmothers chiller, grandmothers, and I've still got one left. Grandma. Myrtle is 99 years old. Oh man. She's one of my favorite people on the planet. Yeah. She is a sweetheart. She always has been. And she, she married my grandpa, uh, bouts time I was born or maybe I was a year old or something.
[:[02:19:09] Great man. She could cook. I never really put it together before, but yeah, you did have a lot of great grandma. Everyone has been divorced remarriage. Yeah. And all at a pretty early in my life. So to where they were always just there, you know, other than Dorothy, well, she lived with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You probably am close with her too.
[:[02:20:04] I think of it as one experience. And like, I still will reference that time in my life when I'm working on cars. Now, just like the problem solving ability, like you've, you did that at a perfect time in my development to where it cemented some concepts in my mind about how to solve problems that have never left me.
[:[02:20:57] And like you had us do all of the [02:21:00] stuff that you need. You were nine years old. You need to learn this shit. Yeah. Jake was seven shit. Hell yeah. Well, we had to get phone books, the stack on the driver's seats for Jake to be able to see over the steering wheel. And, but yeah, that's how we learned how to not only do, and then I'll let you drive it around the motorcycle track until you destroy it.
[:[02:21:45] He was there. Yeah. Right. That was the last time we got to run that run the old dark. Yeah. That pretty much killed it. Yeah. But they, you know, Dodgers darks are tough, but they're not made to go over motorcycle jobs. Yeah. Yeah. I was really [02:22:00] excited. And like in 2012, when they started putting the dart out again, I never, I was like, I'm going to buy that car just as a throwback.
[:[02:22:37] And I was looking at it. I had a big pocket full of money and I'm like, wow, that's cool. Uh, some told me to just buy it. And I said, Joe, I get your right. Yeah. And then uncle Chris started it up in the store and the store, the salesmen all over and I was filthy dirty. Your kids were Girdy cause we'd been working at the shop and then ran up there to grab that other [02:23:00] motorcycle.
[:[02:23:20] I'll give you 1200 it's last year's bikes, you know? And he's like, oh no, we settled on $1,420. I bought it and we took him home and all the way home, we had all strapped down the back of the van. You sat on it, like you're riding it as going get off. I remember when we were on the freeway. Yeah. You made me get off and in the front seat and I just turned my head around home.
[:[02:24:08] It was too slow. Yeah. So I went in there and I'm looking around and I'm bullshitting with the guy. And once again, I had a pocket full of money and I was like, you know, I ended up not going to the pain seminar. I bought the motorcycle, brought back to the shop, did all the, you know, looking it over and checking it out, starting it up and rode it and everything.
[:[02:25:05] I was so scared. I crashed on purpose. Jacob comes bombing down and that was before I rebuilt the front end and the breaks and everything on that little 50. And he's just balls to the wall coming down that hill just wrote it out like a pro. And I was thinking he was going to die right there. Yeah. The first day he ever rode a motorcycle, he almost crashed into that big train trailer.
[:[02:25:51] Yeah. He's always been pretty brave. That's why I didn't continue with the motorcycles because. You know, [02:26:00] possibly both of you going to get hurt and Jake was going to get killed. That's the reason I haven't bought a road bike because I don't trust someone not to run me over, but I really, really want one.
[:[02:26:37] Yeah, it does. But then when you're like, oh fuck, I went too far. Um, you're going to die. And somehow you make it through. And psych, I got to quit riding bikes. That's the same thing happened with drugs. Like you can only have so much fun and then you start realizing it's going to kill you. Yeah. And kids did that.
[:[02:27:29] I hope so. Yeah. Because when I, when I realized that I was going to have kids, I told myself my kids, you're not going to have to go through the shit I had to go through. And you did, but you had to go through the shit that you did go through.
[:[02:28:13] So I think, regardless of whether you did it the way you would do it now or not, it worked out and God knew what was happening. Yeah. And you can't, you know, get too wrapped up in the past because there's nothing you can do about it. It's done, you know, try to. Good things that came from it. You have to forgive other people.
[:[02:29:12] So like you, you had, and you started a business also. Yeah. That's the thing like I'm, I'm still, I'm 32 and that's the concept of starting. And if I would have been a good of a businessman, I was, I was a body man. I would have done it a lot better. Yeah. How do you expect to do both? Like, uh, I don't know. You shouldn't start a business unless you know, what the hell you're doing.
[:[02:29:59] Yeah. [02:30:00] Let's go find some prime rib. Remember that time we took, I took your kids and all the neighbor kids, we all hopped in the van and drove around Astoria until we found somewhere that had prime rib. And we all have giant cuts of prime rib. Nobody can eat at all. No, that was before I even started eating the whole steak ever.
[:[02:30:49] It's, you know, you never know how it's going to go money. Money's weird. And it's, it's hard to figure out how to use it when you don't have any yeah. [02:31:00] We had some other, uh, restaurant experiences in the same place. Great prime rib. Yeah. Did you talk about that in one of your podcasts? I think you did. Yeah.
[:[02:31:35] And it was a very tense moment. And next thing I know, I zapped out and switched shit off the table called the waitress cut. And yeah, it was rough. She's like I'm calling the cops. I'm like everybody run for the van. Yeah. My favorite part, whatever that memory is like after all that, all the dust had settled.
[:[02:32:15] And then we all, we get past them and we're driving down the road and it's calm for like five seconds of silence. I can old Pete. Yeah. I didn't remember. We all laughed. It's like, wow. Yeah, put a bow on it.
[:[02:32:57] And I love you when this father's [02:33:00] day, the 20th of June, June 20th. Okay. . Okay. Remember the app? Cause I still have a father. Yeah. Yup. And he probably deserves a happy father's day pat, on the back, slap on the ass. Something yeah. Slap across the face.
[:[02:33:27]Um, yeah, you're ready to get out of here. , let's do it. Thank you guys so much for listening and . To all the dads out there. I know it's a hard job, but it's one of the most important ones. And you don't get a lot of credit, but keep doing what you're doing. Quit yelling at everybody. Go fuck your wife, make her come.
[:[02:33:55] Oh my gosh, Jeffrey. Yeah. We're not live [02:34:00] so crude. Just you and me in here. I mean, I say so much worse. Make love to your wife. I want to shout out the dads though, that are like doing the dad thing. Like the dads that are coaching their kids' stuff and showing up for the things, oh, the dance dads.
[:[02:34:54] But those dads, yeah, because that takes a little bit [02:35:00] more. , patience and dedication then being on the basketball court with your son. , probably, but to those dads too, that are just like putting in the time and volunteering, um, tiering period, if you're a dad and you're coaching something, bang, when you were coaching baseball.
[:[02:35:43] We had gym. You had, we had one dad. Yeah. He was really helpful. And a nice guy, shout out Jim. Yeah. Hey Jim Smith, you were wonderful. But yeah, we had this whole team of boys and one dad who was willing to help other than you and I, that happens each [02:36:00] year. And I just think, um, good job to those of you who are, who are showing up.
[:[02:36:28] I feel like my dad has really, we've had our ups and downs in our family, but that's one thing that we all agree on is like, he'll give you the shirt off his back. I mean, it's not very long, but you can have it. He'll give you his last five bucks. If it means that you can go get something to eat and he has to go hungry.
[:[02:37:11] What a shitty thing for me to say? No, I just like it. He didn't have all the money to just hand me, but I, my divorce wasn't final. I couldn't buy a house. It would have been, you know, somebody else's also, he, yeah, he, he was your bank basically. Like you'd financed your house. He financed you a house and tell, and I paid the mortgage.
[:[02:37:58] And what is the, like, what [02:38:00] is the fundamental goal that you should have? And it's, it's to be that safety net for your family to build, to build something that you can hand off and to build something that you can use to propel your kids into the next, whatever, you know, that's really, it's a really cool thing.
[:[02:38:37] Like we're going to live here for a few days and that there's always a place to go, albeit not always ideal to move your family of five into your parents' house, but that there's always a place that I'll always have a bedroom there, whether. I'm 12 or 18 or 30, however old I was with a broken [02:39:00] pelvis. I moved back home then, um, or a 38 with no hot water in your house.
[:[02:39:26] Thank you. Bye guys. [02:41:00] [02:40:00] .
