Smashing Fears and Slingin' Craft Beers with Erik Svendsen

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[00:00:23] This day is pretty special to me. I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but I'm from earth. And I like it here. I'm fixing to stay here, so we got to take good care of this place.

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[00:00:39] More specific to me. And we'll get to that in a minute.

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[00:00:51] Did you know that earth day was established back in 1970. It was a time of great social change and awareness and people were beginning to take notice of the negative impact of humans on the environment.

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[00:01:08] But the seeds of environmental awareness were sown much earlier than that. In fact, it was the Apollo missions of the 1960s that really helped to shift society's perspective. The famous blue marble photo taken by Apollo 17 in 1972 showed the world a stunning image of our planet from space. This photo helped to convey the fragility and beauty of our planet. And it sparked a new wave of environmentalist. Seeing pictures of the earth from space for the first time. Whether they were photo-shopped or not. Gave people a new perspective on our home planet and how fragile and precious it really is. It was a wake up call.

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[00:01:57] Now. I know that some of you out there have kids and you want to teach them about this stuff, you know, about the importance of earth day and of the environment.

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[00:02:10] Number one, plant a garden together. Whether it's a small window box or a full-blown vegetable garden, hell even an arrow garden. One of those lovely little, a hydroponics kits you can get for your kitchen counter. I had the five pod. It was awesome.

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[00:02:31] I really, I could just clean it. You know, a little vinegar, probably get that all clean and ready to go. Just like it was new.

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[00:02:53] You could also slaughter a goat with your child.

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[00:03:09] It's not hard. You just literally go walk around, outside and look at stuff. Don't bring your phone. Don't let your kids have their phones and just like, go look at the ground. It's covered a cool shit. Let me get sticks. Bugs leaves, litter, all kinds of stuff.

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[00:03:30] Number three. Make a recycled craft. Use old materials like cardboard, plastic bottles, or newspapers to create something new and beautiful. It's a way to teach your kids about the importance of recycling and upcycling, but more importantly,

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[00:03:57] You know, Got some extra boxes. The light, your neighbors with the box fire.

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[00:04:15] Delight your neighbors.

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[00:04:21] Number four, turn off the lights.

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[00:04:30] Uh, I don't love that one. I think lights are very efficient these days, especially if you have the LEDs, especially dimmable LEDs. And I think you should use appropriate lighting for your circumstances.

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[00:04:56] I think so.

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[00:05:20] Just watching stuff, go by watching the world, pass you by. You feel a little tickle in your bottom roots, you look over and you realize that. Your buddy over there is trying to tell you something, send you a little bit of nitrogen through the root system and your mycelium network as trees do.

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[00:05:40] And that really. We're all the same. You me, the trees.

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[00:05:51] And we got to keep that thing working good. We're part of nature. We're not separate from it.

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[00:06:01] Your children and the time you spend with them.

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[00:06:13] Finally You could participate in a community cleanup. Take a walk and pick up trash along the way. It's simple but effective. Grab yourself a bag. Go on a walk. I say, wear gloves, avoid needle pricks.

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[00:07:53] April 22nd is important for another reason 2017 the day that Melissa became Alyssa Nesbitt And change my life forever I know I mentioned it Somewhat frequently but I really really love my wife a lot

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[00:08:32] But what I will say is that I never expected In a real true way I think in a real legitimate way I never actually expected that I would be happy in a relationship My parents loved each other but they weren't happy That was obvious At least from where I was sitting You watch TV and all you see is drama that's why you tune in that's what you want Nobody wants to watch things just going okay And boring So I genuinely thought that it was going to be a really big long shot for me to ever end up feeling genuinely happy But I found it Amazingly I found it On a random spring day in 2016 My friend Eddie invited me to go to the Los Ru His friend was moving away and she was having a goodbye party.

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[00:09:43] Fresh. Recharged. Energy rich version of Jeff Nesbitt. I could be. I went to the Ru and his group of people that most of the people I know. Yeah. Actually, you know, to be honest with you. I remember Laney was sitting right next to me and that's who I was talking to part of the night.

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[00:10:13] I pretty much just remember Melissa. I was very intrigued. I I'll say intrigued. It was not the same kind of attraction that I'm used to. At this point in my life, I, I had been married before. I had, you know, I was familiar with my natural animalistic instincts. I knew what that felt like.

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[00:10:55] And I remember seeing her at first and. I knew who she was but I had never even met Melissa, never even been in the same room as her, that I was aware of.

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[00:11:12] Yeah, it was. It was different. I had been smitten with people, you know, I've been, I'd had crushes, I'd had the hots for people, and usually that would shut me down to where it make it almost impossible for me to close the deal. And that surprisingly, this time was not happening. And I think it was because, yeah, I think it's because I knew that she.

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[00:11:54] Swinging for, I really didn't even think she was an option. So I just acted like myself and I was normally a pretty nervous around women and. Always. Um, wanted to make sure I didn't say a dumb thing or, you know, insult them somehow. And I didn't do any of that monitoring with Melissa. I just. You know, open the flood gates and let it rip.

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[00:12:19] And low and behold, she liked it.

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[00:12:39] And do something kind of fun. So I was, I meant it. I wasn't just trying to hang out with her, but I, wasn't not trying to hang out with her. And so I gave her my number and she texted me later that night.

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[00:13:09] Even though.

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[00:13:43] And that's a cheap feeling. Infatuation at first sight feels great, but it's not deep. And love at first sight would have to be deep. This felt. Deep. It felt like I was talking to somebody who genuinely cared about what I had to say, wanted to learn about me, wanted to know who I was. And somebody who valued me as a person.

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[00:14:13] After a couple of weeks of coaching together and really hitting it off.

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[00:14:29] I knew she was a very committed mom and she was, you know, successful in her career. She just seemed like she was off limits. And so I just continued to be me.

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[00:14:45] she told me she was going to this show with her friend. And so I made sure to be there and.

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[00:15:06] You know, Moving things to the next level. Because the chemistry was undeniable. It was electric. I, it kind of felt magnetic in a way to where I, it felt inevitable, like it was just going to happen and there was nothing that I could do to stop it. And I didn't want to.

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[00:15:30] She standing there with Bree and I offered to get Melissa a beer and not her friend. It on purpose so that she would know like, I'm here for you. Like, I want you, I want.

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[00:15:56] But honestly, I really don't know. I don't regret it. Because we drank those beers and stood next to each other and kind of swayed together for a while to these songs. Great songs.

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[00:16:25] That's the hardest part

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[00:16:52] Inhibition. To make that jump for me has always been very difficult because I put a lot of effort into maintaining that composure on that front end. So to just abandon that in the presence of another person.

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[00:17:35] I've got her in. My arms wrapped around her and I'm holding her there and we're dancing. And she does this smile where she crinkles her nose. And. My heart exploded. And I just, I just felt like. Overwhelmed with the needs who kiss her and so i did And It was good It was really good I still think about that smile all the time. Honestly i think about it every time she pisses me off It doesn't matter How mad i feel If i picture that face with the crinkled nose. And that smile. I can't stay mad about anything It's actually given me goosebumps just thinking about it right now I w I kind of want to wrap this thing up and go back in the house but i just want to tell you my last thing i'll say about it Is If you're discouraged and you're alone and you don't think you're going to find somebody Keep looking I didn't even know how discouraged i actually was until i found somebody who i really connected with and who just got me Not just It's not just that they have to get you They have to get you to be the best person you can be They have to get you To get over yourself Which is a huge job for anybody But it's not impossible and somebody out there will do it Somebody out there will love to do it So don't stop looking don't close your heart if you close your heart you won't find somebody Keep your heart open and keep your chin up and just Trust it will happen Melissa I love you so so much Thank you so much for making me a father and making me a better man Happy anniversary

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[00:19:46] You can find our entire episode catalog as well as any links you might need. At Ramble by the River dot com.

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[00:20:14] and that makes it so that new people aren't able to sign up. So I apologize for that Patrion subscribers. You are going to still continue to get the early access and I'm not going to pull the page for now, but to be honest, I wasn't crazy about Patrion allowing that whole, uh, Well, you can look it up.

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[00:20:59] My guest today is a former cpa turned brew master He owns and runs north jetty brewing the people behind beers like my favorite mad viking ipa which is celebrating its 10 year anniversary You can find their awesome beer at drinking establishments restaurants and grocery stores across the pacific northwest And of course at their amazing taproom in seaview washington In the interview today you'll hear some great personal stories and behind the scenes stuff about running a brewery and about a thousand other topics as well we get deep we go philosophical Spiritual we go all over the place economics finance You name it That's all coming up right after a message from our sponsor

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[00:24:19] Eric Svendsen: Uh, yeah.

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[00:24:39] It's not bad. It's not. I, I try to do at least four, four miles gets me to 10,000 steps on, on the walk itself. And then like yesterday I did six miles, which is basically my house down to the beach approach, um, at Seaview and then down to the bridge at Beards Hollow and then back. That's a long walk. Yeah.

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[00:24:59] Humble beginnings: home brewing to successful business owner

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[00:25:10] Jeff Nesbitt: pretty well. You're not super busy with the running a business?

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[00:25:17] Oh yeah. That's the best kind of busy. Yeah. I mean, it, it's one of those things where it takes most of the day. Um, but it is very flexible and we're fortunate to have good staff and, uh, I have a good partner in Michelle and, uh, so it, it really ends up being, uh, pretty easy to kind of be flexible here and there.

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[00:25:49] Jeff Nesbitt: That's, I like that kind of structure. Mm-hmm. You can kind of strategize and use your energy, however it fits you best.

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[00:26:10] Jeff Nesbitt: right? Yeah. Yeah. How did you become a, how did you go from being a CPA to a master brewer?

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[00:26:38] Even in my CPA and in my, my accounting career, I saw most businesses kind of get started because someone really likes what they're doing, so they decide, well, I wanna make money for myself rather than for somebody else, so I'm gonna do what it is. Uh, which unfortunately can get 'em into trouble on the financial side, but that kind of comes later down the line, you know, like most things do, you move past the honeymoon phase and then you got the real life staring at you.

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[00:27:31] It was just a pot. And it came with all the stuff. It was like a pot, and it was like the ingredients for a he and, uh, like a glass car boy. And it had the, the car, the car boy locks. And I, you know, I was always kind of into, I had the chemistry set as a kid and the erector sets and stuff, so it was just, I like building things in the gear, you know, and I always got a kick outta that.

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[00:27:51] Jeff Nesbitt: that. Was it a kid, like, uh, like a pre-made one that some person put together, or was it like a brand. Like, I had one called a Mr. Beer when I was like 15. Yeah,

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[00:28:18] It's, it's, it's kind of the bible of home brewing. And since a lot of craft brewers came more out of home brewing than they did out of big production breweries, that's where most of them, at least when I was kind of coming outta school, it's different now, but it's at least when I was kind of coming outta school, that was the case.

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[00:29:01] And, uh, it made decent beer. You know, it wasn't, uh, there wasn't a lot of craft beer back there, you know, this is 1996. There was, there was like pyramid Hef of eyes in, there was full sail, there was Red Hook, uh, Whitmer. I mean, but that was, that was even before Whir. I mean, that was probably about it. And especially when you're in Ellensburg, Washington, you're not getting a lot of craft beer.

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[00:29:46] So you have to mill it yourself and. And it had flaked wheat and you kind of put that in a little strainer. It's called a micro mash. And you kind of steep that along with your, uh, otherwise you have, um, actually not cracked grain. The, the crack grain's, like the micro mash, like a little bit of caramel malt for color and like the flaked wheat.

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[00:30:24] Jeff Nesbitt: Okay. So now it's just like, do everything but grow the grain yourself.

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[00:30:48] Or it's like, ah, you can make beer and how do you do this and how do you do this? And I always kind of compare it to, if you set out to make a lasagna or a hamburger or pretty much every, anything and you, you know, model of a car and you follow the instructions and you kind of walk it through and you are somewhat, you know, pay attention and you're diligent about it and you follow all the steps and everything like that, um, you're usually gonna come out with a product that, well, it might not be the best out.

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[00:31:22] Jeff Nesbitt: you ever heard of this thing called the internet? I have heard of it. Well, there's people on there who try to do stuff all the time and they suck at it.

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[00:31:43] Eric Svendsen: person. Oh, thank you. Yeah. It takes, you know, I think it takes diligence. I think it takes that part of being a smart, smart person, I think is understanding what you don't know.

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[00:32:15] You know? And not that, not that opinions are bad, but when you have wheeled tons of influence, you also have to have a certain amount of modesty and a certain amount of, you know,

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[00:32:35] Right. They have the power to change the course of our nation by just saying something off the cuff. Yeah. Like I'm, I was talking about Joe Rogan, right. On his podcast. I mean, he's got millions and millions of people listening more than any cable news network. Right. And, um, his words, ma, they matter. They like, they matter a

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[00:32:55] Well, and then, then I think the only, you know, the thing that kind of occurs to me on that is, um, when is the responsibility also on the listener? Always. And that's my thing too, as, as I think that it, it, it's funny, it's like there's this, there's this huge microphone in front of everybody that blasts opinions out there, but there's also this, this ready consumer, this ready set of giant ears ready to suck it all in and take everything as this sort of unmitigated truth without much in the way of investigating it yourself.

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[00:33:32] Jeff Nesbitt: well, that stuff is so hard. You have to take time and go look and be challenged and then at the end of the day, you don't end up feeling better. You feel worse. So people just don't do it. Yeah. They're like, because they're, all you find is nuance.

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[00:34:02] And they realize that those buckets never really fill up. Cause there's not enough stuff to put in either one of them.

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[00:34:20] But it seems to be a little, um, the world seems, maybe it's a little less nuanced now. I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe it's just I'm, I'm kind of in my own little, you know, approaching 50 bubble and I kind of see it in my Gen X tinted glasses. But, uh, but yeah, I, I, I, I think that, I think that it's helpful not to get discouraged by the nuances, not to get discouraged by the fact that there is no, maybe, maybe there isn't an objective, right or wrong, maybe there's just sort of nearing degrees of likelihood.

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[00:35:10] This is the product I put out. This is what I do, this is who I am, and I understand it's not for everybody. Mm-hmm. Fair enough. But you know, we're gonna keep on trying to improve it and keep on trying to, you know, what he said when we first started, we're not gonna chase opinions. So therefore you may never be a hype beer maybe, but,

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[00:35:32] We

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[00:35:52] And to me it just got, it's got so overplayed and it got, so, it got kinda, it was like the, like the Hayes craze was these last, you know, the last few years before this is, it's just, it got overplayed. So no, I didn't like doing it. Not to say that we don't do the styles when they come along, especially if it's something where it catches, you know, someone in the brewery's sort of attention, Hey, that'd be a, that'd be a fun beer to do.

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[00:36:19] Jeff Nesbitt: level. It's a creative act. There's, there's, seems like there's a lot of creativity to it, more so in beer than in other things like wine, uh, or even like spirits. A lot of that is just like tradition.

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[00:37:04] Mm-hmm. Uh, and so it's, it, it is much more of, I, I think beer is more of a manipulative process than, than winemaking is. At least maybe on the back of me, on the wine making. It's more of the upfront when you're growing the grapes and that's where you do your manipulating with soil chemistry and water and tonnage and all that kind of thing.

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[00:37:40] Jeff Nesbitt: or Jenny, did you ever make any at home?

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[00:38:04] Yeah. And I, being a beer maker, I just kinda let it roll and it just, it ended up with just powerful. I mean, you know, it would mess you up fairly quickly, but it was, uh, it was skunky. Uh, yeah, no, it was, it was just, it was hot. It was hot and, and I didn't, and I was in my dorm in college and it was not my dorm, excuse me.

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[00:38:34] Jeff Nesbitt: What does that mean exactly? In, in

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[00:38:48] That's room temp. Yeah. Yeah. For ales, for loggers, they ferment more like 50 degrees, 54 degrees, somewhere down there. So loggers are cold for bottom fermenting, and then ales are warmer, top fermenting as far as the east strains go.

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[00:39:04] Eric Svendsen: Oh boy. I don't know.

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[00:39:06] Jeff Nesbitt: seventies. They're really bragging about that. It's

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[00:39:26] Oh yeah, sorry, I lost that. No, no, no, no. I was making fun. Coors fine. Um,

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[00:39:34] Eric Svendsen: concerned.

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[00:39:40] Eric Svendsen: uh, let's see,

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[00:39:43] Eric Svendsen: meant in Oh, hot fermentation. Hot fermentation, yeah. Excuse me. So, so what happens when it starts fermenting hot is you have, um, the yeast throws more of what are called fruit ERs, which are good.

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[00:40:03] Jeff Nesbitt: quality. Uh, or is Esther Esthers, that's a

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[00:40:11] I think it means like, you know, a molecule which cis the olfactory sensors or something. I think it's just, but it's a, it's a specific chemical produced by the yeast that kind of mimics the same, um, smell compounds and like apples and pears and those kind of things. And so that you get those at higher temperatures.

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[00:40:49] So it wasn't skunky, it wasn't anything like that. It was just, it was unpleasant to drink because it was, it was what I would term an out of control sort of fermentation.

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[00:41:02] Eric Svendsen: why we have the glycol jackets. You know, when you walk in a breweries, you see all the lines drop down going into 'em.

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[00:41:27] And so if we didn't have those glycol jackets to keep the beer warm, um, you know, they, they, they'd climb up to high enough, 80, 90 degree temperatures and kill the yeast Oh, wow. And then throw off all those flavors. So yeah, we, we have to like a pile of dead

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[00:41:42] Eric Svendsen: steaming. Exactly. Exa and, and even more.

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[00:42:03] That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So it, so those are part of the process then as these glycol coolers to kind of run these things. And that was something that I just kind of picked up along the

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[00:42:20] Eric Svendsen: No, you know, originally, When we first opened, way back when it was sort of a, it was sort of a, we call a Franken brew system. Our glycol chiller was like a, a, a chest freezer with like a little tub in it. But

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[00:42:35] Eric Svendsen: Doing that same system. But yeah, no, everything we have now is, is uh, it's all commercial manufactured equipment and specific, you kind of have to be, there's just, there's the, the stuff's just di design, you know, that's the biggest difference between home brewing and, you know, doing a, doing a 10 gallon home brew batch, or I do like 12 gallons on my, my sys my all green system that I'd made as a home brewer.

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[00:43:17] Mm-hmm. That's kind of like where the, the tricks come in. Yeah. You know, and so it's just the bigger

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[00:43:22] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. Same process. Yeah. Bigger scale, same process. It's just, you know, those, those, those volumes kind of require certain, you know, you gotta have pun. You can't just pick it up and move it. You got

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[00:43:33] Jeff's work

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[00:43:42] Eric Svendsen: Vegetation

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[00:43:56] Yeah. Which to be honest, that is a really hard job as a one person team with no funding. Right. Um, so most of that is actually done through community outreach. I don't, I don't write any tickets, because it doesn't help anybody. Yeah. It doesn't help them. It doesn't help me.

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[00:44:13] Jeff Nesbitt: tanzy and all that kinda stuff. Yeah, we have contracts with all kinds of different organizations and groups.

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[00:44:23] Jeff Nesbitt: the, our main funded projects are spartina still out in the Bay still.

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[00:44:28] Eric Svendsen: I had thought that that had been pretty well controlled. It

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[00:44:39] Eric Svendsen: Gotcha. And well, my understanding was there's like one little spot of land that doesn't want to have. I

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[00:44:46] That was Oh, you were

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[00:44:53] Jeff Nesbitt: yet. Yep. Everything's approved. No one's fighting us on it anymore. That's awesome. Yeah, that last landowner actually just died like two weeks ago.

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[00:45:04] Eric Svendsen: know, I suppose people, people do what they think is the right thing.

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[00:45:15] Eric Svendsen: Government stooge. Yep. So that we're from the government, we're here to help you.

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[00:45:27] Eric Svendsen: dickhead true story, you know? And that goes a long way. I, I think, I think it goes a long way living in this area, you know, and saying, I got roots in this area. I'm just not like, you know, especially, you know, saying that, you know, you're kind of, um, uh, attached to commercial fishing on some level, stuff like that.

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[00:45:48] Jeff Nesbitt: it's gotta, I'm, I'm deeply rooted here and I'm invested. And Are you from here? Yeah. Okay. I grew up in Ocean Park. Gotcha. Yeah, I went to Ilwaco Highschool and then I moved away and went to college.

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[00:46:21] Yeah. Since 20, uh, 2005.

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[00:46:27] Jeff Nesbitt: day? Yeah, I bet. Just to keep myself, you know, on the straight and narrow and just to figure out what's going on with the people around me.

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[00:46:35] Education

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[00:46:44] Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, yeah. So I wanna hear about both of those things. Um, music and math have a lot in common music. I always think of music as like auditory math. I can see it when I'm listening to it. Yeah. And it looks, it looks like it fractions breaks up into, into, into, you know, divided divisible chunks. It's, it's just very mathematical.

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[00:47:04] Eric Svendsen: it is. It's, uh, and, and what I like, what I like about music is, I can't remember who it was, it was, I think her name was Simone Day. She was this pho French philosopher. And I don't, she wasn't talking about music, but it was always something that, that rang. I think she's talking about philosophy or something like that.

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[00:47:51] Right. And, and that's true about high level mathematics. They're kind of reserved for people of genius. You know, they can look at a, you know, they can look at a calculation like an Oppenheimer can look at a calculation, look at the results of that and say, okay, I'm the destroyer of worlds now without having to see the bomb.

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[00:48:24] So we, we kind of run in harmony with it. And I think we feel that at a deep level, and I think it is meaningful and moving that way.

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[00:48:42] Eric Svendsen: Yeah.

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[00:48:55] Jeff Nesbitt: That's my favorite shit to talk about. Yeah. And think about. I love that stuff.

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[00:49:30] And you end up saying, well, you can never get there cuz it's infinitely to this sort of half thing. But obviously he can, he can overtake him. So it's his paradox is how that happens. And I went down this kind of rabbit hole on this, um, um, uh, great course thing about, um, string theory and relativity and time and all this kind of stuff.

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[00:50:08] It's basically going blip, blip, blip, blip, blip. And it's just spontaneously moving from spot to spot at this plunk level. So I thought it was very interesting to, to kind of think about it moving is more of this three-dimensional, light bright kind of thing through this, this, you know, this, this kind of compacted energy

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[00:50:26] Yeah. So what is it that's, that's the unifying force that lights up the light, bright

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[00:51:01] And then just based on the laws of the universe in physics, they kind of become mm-hmm. Matter.

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[00:51:24] Absolutely. You can do that and say like, it's all math and it's all, it's not randomness, but it's, uh, it's just, it's implicit geometry or you can make that all just woowoo God stuff. Right. And like you have a full spectrum in between to

[: 00:51:38

[00:51:50] Uh, I was always interested in, um, you know, like, uh, like certain psychedelic drugs, let's say like, um, psilocybin mushrooms is that they will kind of generate these sort of fractal patterns and these kind of, these kind of patterns and stuff like that and that, that really look like, um, native American artwork.

[: 00:52:11

[00:52:40] Well,

[: 00:52:40

[00:53:00] Yeah. Like the flower of life. Yeah. Um, and every time and, and like, like you can actually use those frequencies to levitate matter. Like, uh, it's crazy what they can do with frequency. Yeah. And like

[: 00:53:13

[00:53:32] Cause we've gotten, I like that we're moving away from, we're somehow the universe is special creature to no, we're, we're another manifestation of this world. We're another, something that the universe has created along the way. Same as plants, same as dogs, and all these kind of stuff. We're something else.

[: 00:53:49

[00:54:05] And uh, and it just seems like when we can kind of live our lives within that sort of framework, it just seems like things get a lot

[: 00:54:14

[00:54:27] Sure. You know, and then we kind of had to not only learn how to come to terms with that, but figure out how to, you know, rise above it, move on to a civilized society long enough to where we could forget about it and actually feel like we're somehow separate. Right. Only to just really have a lot of true power come right back when we learn again that we're not separate.

[: 00:54:48

[00:55:02] Jeff Nesbitt: Well, some scientists are real pieces

[: 00:55:04

[00:55:04] Yeah. Yeah. They don't, they don't, scientists don't often. Articulate their message Well,

[: 00:55:12

[00:55:22] Eric Svendsen: damage. I always tell people it's, if you wanna know if it's legitimate, look at what they're doing and say, are they trying to prove something is true or are they trying to disprove that something is true?

[: 00:55:34

[00:55:52] Jeff Nesbitt: cut holes in the pseudoscience is, is is just something you can't disprove.

[: 00:55:56

[00:56:01] Eric Svendsen: No. There, there, there's no, it's, you can't argue it because there's no objective facts about it. It's like, it's like Audrey arguing over the fine points of religion. It's like, yeah, we were just talking about belief systems.

[: 00:56:12

[00:56:13] Jeff Nesbitt: There's a, like a, uh, what's it, I can't forget, I'm forgetting the principle, but, um, I'll use the movie Mystery Men to explain what I'm talking about. Remember Kena and Kel? Oh yeah. We're both seeming like, we're kind of cotton mouth. I can hear it on here. Let's both get a beer. That'd be perfect. Um, uh, you want to grab 'em and, um, where's they at?

[: 00:56:31

[00:56:33] Jeff Nesbitt: us a couple of them. Absolutely. Great.

[: 00:56:35

[00:56:37] Jeff Nesbitt: Um, but what I was saying, um, the movie Mystery Man from a while back, Ben Stiller, um, the guy from Keenan and Cal Kell, he had a power of invisibility uhhuh, but it only worked when no one was watching.

[: 00:56:51

[00:57:09] Eric Svendsen: Thank you. Called Bone Shaker. So it's fun. We, we kinda,

[: 00:57:18

[00:57:34] It's a guy named Kyle Schul. Is it drawn or

[: 00:57:37

[00:57:38] Eric Svendsen: It's, it's, uh, I believe it's computerated drafting probably with some ai. It's cool. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, he, uh, used to be outta Ridgefield, Washington and I think he moved to, uh, North Carolina, but this kinda work, it doesn't matter where they are, you know.

[: 00:57:52

[00:57:57] Jeff Nesbitt: along. Hi Michelle. Yeah, she was

[: 00:58:01

[00:58:04] Jeff Nesbitt: So I saw she got a, a new place, a new studio for her or? Yeah. What is it? Yin yoga. Yin yoga. You ever do that?

[: 00:58:16

[00:58:36] She's doing mini and me, where she's, she's got, um, different kind of zones for parents or grandparents or caretakers and kids to come through and do some yoga stuff, do some playing with exercise balls, some gymnast stuff. Just some, some movement, some activities and stuff like that. Cool. Yeah, it should be really fun.

[: 00:58:56

[00:59:16] Uh, and, and that was my thing. She was talking about kind of doing a small speaker in the corner. It's like, well, you know, you're a sound guy obviously. It's like you have to have sound kind of coming from all quadrants or else it's too loud somewhere, not loud enough, and you gotta have enough bass support or it's tinny and you have to have it so loud that it hurts your ears cuz there's no carrier signal.

[: 00:59:35

[00:59:36] Jeff Nesbitt: One of my biggest pet peeves is when people just play music from their cell phone, but they don't tune it. Right. Like, they just either turn it all the way up to where everything's just maxed out and it sounds like shit. Mm-hmm. Or they, or it's too quiet. I don't know. Those speakers on the iPhone especially are, are really impressive for what they can do.

[: 00:59:57

[01:00:11] That kills

[: 01:00:12

[01:00:31] Yeah. You just kind of have to, if sometimes it gets outta control, I'll sort of like, uh, you know, do the eyebrows at the bartender and, you know, they'll, they'll maybe kind of say, Hey, can keep it down a little bit. Something like

[: 01:00:43

[01:00:44] Eric Svendsen: someone carries No. You know, and you're trying to curate an experience to a certain extent where people are gonna have, have fun and do their thing.

[: 01:00:51

[01:01:00] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah. Kind of thing. Do you guys still do trivia or anything like that? Yeah,

[: 01:01:04

[01:01:12] And I think we're kind of coming to the end here. I think we've got maybe three left. Okay. We don't do him during the summer, and then we do, uh, bingo the first Wednesday of the month. Cool. Yeah.

[: 01:01:21

[01:01:24] Eric Svendsen: rain loud. It is coming down. It's, uh, it's impre. It's been a nice couple days. I mean, yeah.

[: 01:01:32

[01:01:35] Genius walks

[: 01:01:35

[01:01:52] Yeah. Yeah. And do you notice anything like a really big improvement in your mood or, uh, in your level of ideas when you're walking?

[: 01:01:59

[01:02:12] I mean, you look back at these great thinkers and, and everything like that, you know, Einsteins, they, they took walks and they, because, or maybe nietzche, he, he didn't say walking. He said, you know, throw said solitude is the key to great thinking, those kind of things. It, it's, you need time to think, you need time for solitude.

[: 01:02:32

[01:02:51] You know, it can kind of go do, its big, the creature's busy, platonic kind of mind stuff, you know? Yeah. And absolutely. I think, and that's one of the things I like it, other than, you know, the health benefits and that kind of thing, is I just, I like getting out there and I like, uh, seeing the vistas and, you know, the, the, the air.

[: 01:03:08

[01:03:11] Jeff Nesbitt: direction do you tend to look down, up, straightforward? Are you looking at mushrooms on the ground in salamanders? Are you looking at bald eagles attacking crows? What's your

[: 01:03:20

[01:03:29] It's probably kind of look in front of me and, and watch the ground. I try to look up and look around

[: 01:03:34

[01:03:41] Eric Svendsen: not much, you know? I mean, they're in the, they're good at hiding. They're in the trees. Yeah. Well, I'm not looking for 'em.

[: 01:03:46

[01:04:08] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah.

[: 01:04:08

[01:04:09] Eric Svendsen: don't get it. I, well, I mean, I understand, I, I understand why people might say, well, we gotta make it illegal legal because we want to protect kids from drugs, and they have this sort of objectively black and white view of the world, so I can understand why certain people want it illegal.

[: 01:04:26

[01:04:26] Jeff Nesbitt: it should be illegal. Yeah. But that generat. Was taught that specific information and that specific worldview by a very small group of people for a very specific reason. And Oh yeah. Uh, we now know what that is. So the fact that they still clinging onto that idea is, is

[: 01:04:41

[01:04:43] And it's unfortunately, some of these, and I like, like people like Huberman are bring it back, is that unfortunately marijuana and psilocybin and L S D and mdm a and legitimate psychotherapeutical drugs got lumped in with heroin and cocaine and opium and all these other drugs that are much less therapeutic.

[: 01:05:12

[01:05:31] They were called doctors. Yeah. And now the doctors seem like they just worked for the pharmaceutical companies. So if it's not in that one single book, then it's not medicine, you know? Yeah. The consensus of, of the way medicine used to work is, is gone. I mean, I'm talking a long time ago, but a lot more people died back then.

[: 01:05:48

[01:05:50] Eric Svendsen: Medical system is great, but the doctor on Little House on the Prairie, doc Brown or whatever he was, that kind of thing. But yeah, no, I mean I think that it's, it, it's probably, it starts, I mean, look, I was the, I was the Nancy Reagan just saying no generation, you know, on the war,

[: 01:06:03

[01:06:04] Yeah. And the dare generation. Yeah,

[: 01:06:07

[01:06:26] But I, I think there are some things that when you attach a profit modem to motive to them, um, start to not do the jobs that they probably should be doing within society because the system

[: 01:06:38

[01:06:47] Looking at the economy and looking at just, okay, so just in the last week there's been a lot of money moving back into Bitcoin and the economy sucks right now. I, I don't even know what the latest bad news is, but hasn't been any good for a while. And so I, I'm, I'm nervous because I don't have a whole lot of money put away, but I wanna know where to put it when it, when I have the opportunity.

[: 01:07:11

[01:07:22] , are you concerned about the current state of our economy or the future of it? And what are your biggest worries and then what are your biggest things you're excited about looking forward?

[: 01:07:33

[01:07:36] Jeff Nesbitt: even on any scale? Yeah. Small business, large scale, whatever you're most

[: 01:07:40

[01:07:46] It's, it's in a tough time right now and, but now we are coming out of a very, very bad, historically bad winter and. You know, those problems are, are numerous. You had, you had record inflation, you had super high gas prices. You know, you got this war on, um, you have this saber rattling with China and, and Russia.

[: 01:08:05

[01:08:16] Jeff Nesbitt: bad moods. Okay. So really quickly, can we do a small tangent about the indictment?

[: 01:08:21

[01:08:23] Jeff Nesbitt: indictment. Okay. I, I, I just saw that like, or like an hour ago and I'm like, yeah, I think it just happened today. Okay. Yeah. Trump is, Trump has been indicted, apparently.

[: 01:08:31

[01:08:37] Uh, but, um, however, which direction that goes is it, is it's, it makes everybody very cautious about the future and it makes everybody very wary. And when everybody's wary, everybody holds on to their money. And when people hold onto their money, the only nice thing about it is you might see a reduction in inflationary pressures.

[: 01:09:03

[01:09:15] Jeff Nesbitt: No, actually there was no, that's a good question. I, uh, I, when I graduated I was like, wait a minute.

[: 01:09:21

[01:09:43] Sure. And since then, I've gotten into crypto and investing a little bit and just tried to learn basically about money and Gotcha. What it is and how like, How differently it's used between poor people and people with wealth, especially generational wealth. Yeah. Astounded me when I found that out. It's a whole different world.

[: 01:10:01

[01:10:05] Eric Svendsen: Well, I, I, I think it's, you know, when you're, when you're in a high income bracket, you, you know, you have accountants and you have attorneys and you have financial advisors and you have these, these, this, you have this, uh, array of advisors that you work with who are professionals who kind of tell you what to do and where to do it and that kind of thing.

[: 01:10:24

[01:10:49] And, and the best way I think that you can stay defense is state offensive, is to, um, buy and hold and everybody's and, and keep buying. You know, I have, uh, one of my, one of my really good friends is a, uh, he's an investment advisor and he always says the market's not down. It's on sale. Cuz the market always goes back up unless, you know, unless all hell breaks loose and the markets explode and all the money, then, then at that point you're not really worried about where your money's at.

[: 01:11:21

[01:11:41] You're full of good quotes. I love that one. Yeah. And he's absolutely right. I mean, you know, you gotta, you gotta say, and, and, and, and the thing about it too is you have to have this little bit of mindset as a, as a small business and entrepreneur, that even when all hell breaks loose, there's still money to be

[: 01:11:56

[01:11:57] Oh, there's a lot of money to be made. That's the best time. Yeah, that's, that's raw

[: 01:12:00

[01:12:19] Something that will bring money back to you. Something that you can look at it and say, this was a good purchase. If you have a phone and your phone works just fine, you don't need a new phone. Even though a new phone just came out. And that's this ide this idea of hedonic adaption. You know, we're these an enlightened hedon it or enlightened hedonists I suppose.

[: 01:12:40

[01:12:59] And if you can kind of remind yourself of that, I think, and get really diligent again, that word about what you're spending your money on and just, and, and get, get satisfaction from looking at your bank statement and saying, Hey, I got money sitting here. Or saying, I got enough now I can go buy that piece of property.

[: 01:13:16

[01:13:25] Jeff Nesbitt: Always. It's just, just going up

[: 01:13:27

[01:13:36] You know, put away, I guess. But I, uh, you know, I, I, I just kind of put stuff in mutual funds Yeah. When I can. Um, but, uh, you know, and, and, and you know, you try to try to buy buildings, you try to pay down debt, you know, cuz interest rates are gonna go up. So anybody like right now that have any kind of line of credit, that have any kind of, um, bank cards that are tied to the prime rate, they're gonna go up because interest rates keep going up.

[: 01:14:05

[01:14:23] Jeff Nesbitt: first.

[: 01:14:23

[01:14:47] Um, it looks a lot like our current economic situation is based on bad economic policy on a federal level where, and it may be because they didn't have a choice that I don't know, I don't know enough about the system to really make that determination. But it seems like during the Covid scare, they had no other choice but to just start pouring money into the system and they had to do that and it went to every single family that needed it in businesses and all that.

[: 01:15:19

[01:15:44] Yeah. Like it, it, it just seems like the writing's on the wall that that's a bad fucking idea. Even though it was helpful and nice and I loved it. Yeah. And I did benefit from it cause I got those checks too. But lately we've had a few major crashes in our financial system.

[: 01:15:58

[01:16:17] Well, yeah.

[: 01:16:17

[01:16:19] Jeff Nesbitt: Couple weeks ago. That's right where I was going. And so there's been several, there was three at least. And , then the government stepped in and, and put a patch on that leak on that bandaid. And they said, we're gonna make those investments whole, we're gonna reimburse the depositors.

[: 01:16:36

[01:16:51] Say that again In 2008? Yeah. When this, when we had a major problem, like similar, similar to this in two eight, the bailouts, uh, when the banks were, were too big to fail. Too big to fail. Yeah. They gave the money to the banks. They did instead of two, the depositors and then the executives all bought yachts and the depositors went and fucked themselves, I guess.

[: 01:17:11

[01:17:12] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. It was, yeah. You know, two thou, yeah. That was,

[: 01:17:17

[01:17:32] Yeah. But my question is this, are they, are they getting ready to just collapse the dollar so that we can they have a reason to move us onto a sdc, like a, a, a central bank digital currency? A uh, yeah. I don't think,

[: 01:17:45

[01:18:00] I don't care what sector they're in. But that aside, I'll come back to that. I don't want to just dismiss it like that. No. Okay. Well, but I do wanna say unintentional. Yeah. But I do wanna say that the, um, what if they're

[: 01:18:11

[01:18:18] Well, the problem,

[: 01:18:19

[01:18:35] And you had some governors that closed it quickly and you had some governors that closed it, , you know, slowly. And it kind of depended on their political, attachments and what they thought of the science and what they thought of their messagings to their constituents and all these things that go into politics.

[: 01:18:50

[01:19:10] but what happens is, and you hit the nail on head we're talking about earlier, is when you pump money into an economic system, you get runaway inflation. You know, like you're talking about the wheel barrels full of money and all these kind of stuff to buy, you get runaway inflation and you get it skyrocketing.

[: 01:19:26

[01:19:45] Exactly. You know, and so like Venmo and all this kind of stuff with these apps and stuff is they can't track it. So yeah, I would, so coming back to that, I don't think that maybe the infrastructure is in there now and I think they're gonna get a lot of pushback from the states, especially if they try to do that and, you know, from, from uh, certain, you know, kind of more conservative elements I think are gonna say, well, you know, it's just the government intruding and they're trying to watch every single transaction that we're doing.

[: 01:20:11

[01:20:15] Jeff Nesbitt: there's, there's exactly that. It's because that's, they need the data to be able to use the technology, right. That's, that's the trade off. It's not, it's not inherently evil. No, it's, uh, or even conspiratorial. It's just the truth because the data is the, the juice.

[: 01:20:31

[01:20:34] Eric Svendsen: Engineers, my dad always had this point. Uh, you ever met my dad Bill? I, I don't know. Uh, Bill's Spence and they own the, uh, the performing arts center in Long Beach. Oh. There they have concerts and stuff in. Cool. Um,

[: 01:20:48

[01:20:50] Eric Svendsen: town?

[: 01:20:51

[01:21:21] And like one of them is, you know, okay, well let's, if we want to know what, what it is you, you want to buy at home, let's just have your smart speaker listen to you, because then we'll know exactly what you want to buy. You know, it's common sense. It's common sense. You know, they don't think about this entire other, you know, the right to quiet enjoyment and peaceful existence and liberty and all these kind of things.

[: 01:21:39

[01:21:56] And that's why the Feds raising interest rates because they're trying to put the, they're trying to drive up, they drive up prices to put the brakes on, inflation, they drive up borrowing because it starts at the top, you know, with all this, yeah. This kind of thing.

[: 01:22:07

[01:22:07] Jeff Nesbitt: I, I wanna go back for a second to, uh, what you just said about, we were talking about how it's not their job.

[: 01:22:14

[01:22:35] It's, it's almost, uh, inevitable at this point because there's so much momentum. But who is responsible for being, for being the one to put on the brakes on that kind of thing?

[: 01:22:47

[01:22:57] They say, Hey, look, you know, what's going on here is, is spookier. Let's slow it down. Let's put the breaks on. Let's look at these research institutions. Because the other thing is, is that we also, I think, have to be careful that we don't take the plot of a science fiction movie and say that that's what's going to happen if AI suddenly becomes sentient and takes over the worldwide camera system and all these kind of things.

[: 01:23:20

[01:23:24] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah. We don't, don't worry. We're gonna build it to make sure it's easy. Yeah, yeah. Everything's become the, the internet of things. Everything's becoming more integrated. Yeah. It's gonna, but that's the thing is like the technology really will get there and people are gonna all accept that at some point the technology will get there to where there will be a, like all knowing intelligent ai, unless, I mean, unless there's some kind of a major catastrophe Yeah.

[: 01:23:50

[01:24:03] Eric Svendsen: information. And I don't know how you, I I don't know how you, excuse me. I don't know how you combat something like that as a single

[: 01:24:09

[01:24:09] You fucking can't. No, no.

[: 01:24:11

[01:24:32] Or, you know, is, is, is China going to side with, with Russia, you know, are we gonna, are we gonna go, you know, it. These giant geopolitical things. You just, I mean, at the end of the day, I guess all you have is hope that cool heads prevail. And you know, people, people, you know, we, we have someone like during the Cuban Missile Crisis, who everybody can back down a little bit.

[: 01:24:54

[01:24:55] Jeff Nesbitt: but did you hear that? We found out the CIA did do it. Did what? Kennedy. No, they did.

[: 01:25:02

[01:25:03] Jeff Nesbitt: read it in a document. In a document. yeah, the war, is it the Warren Commission, Warren Commission report? Uh, that I'm, I'm a little bit intoxicated. I, it's hard for me to remember , the details.

[: 01:25:16

[01:25:32] Eric Svendsen: interesting. So you see, so they're saying that Oswald was a patsy,

[: 01:25:35

[01:25:36] I haven't actually, I didn't see anything about Oswald mentioned. Yeah. But it was just some dude who was a CIA agent who, uh, described procuring the weapons and .

[: 01:25:46

[01:25:57] I mean, I'm sure it's not beyond the realm of, of ideas, you know, and all that kind of stuff. I mean, no,

[: 01:26:01

[01:26:12] And it's so fucking boring. Right. And you have to really, it takes so much mental energy. I remember doing these things in college that we had called Paper Shreds, where you have to take a peer reviewed literature article and just go through it and circle all the things that are good, you know, cross out the things that are bad and like, Basically review the paper as if you're a peer.

[: 01:26:34

[01:26:52] And it's fun. But you quickly see that what a conspiracy theory in a broad sense of the term is, is somebody has taken a few kernels of truth and real events and real people, and then most of the time it's been twisted and, and had other bullshit built around it and used for, you know, certain agendas or whatever.

[: 01:27:15

[01:27:24] Eric Svendsen: and sort of modern, soft sophistry, you know, it's like using like, you know, rhetoric, you know, you can do all these appeals to emotion and these kind of things, you know?

[: 01:27:33

[01:27:52] Yes. You know, and so the, the sensational stuff is really, that's why they catch fire. Yeah. They're gonna grab it, you know, they grab people and, and they, well, it's sensational. I'm gonna check that out. And, you know, and I think that even people, you know, like the, the flat earth thing, this is my opinion, I don't think anybody actually believes that.

[: 01:28:08

[01:28:13] Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, well, also, I do, I know there are people that believe it because I know how the flat earth or

[: 01:28:17

[01:28:18] Jeff Nesbitt: all of it, the way psychology works.

[: 01:28:20

[01:28:39] Sure, sure. Um,

[: 01:28:41

[01:28:54] Jeff Nesbitt: Well, because there's stuff in these things that are built in, baked in Sure.

[: 01:28:59

[01:29:22] Yeah. And that's a fucking trick. Yeah,

[: 01:29:24

[01:29:36] You know, and run about of true, true things to say about their arguments or never had any to begin with, or never had anything to begin with. You know, it, it is always look at like, what, what is their motivation for doing it or what is their motivation for saying it? And, you know, like a flat earth. I can't think of any really solid motivation other than just tweaking around with people, but, okay.

[: 01:29:54

[01:29:54] Jeff Nesbitt: I can, I can tell you and, but I, I will come back to it because I wanna hear what you have to say though.

[: 01:30:00

[01:30:12] Jeff Nesbitt: Go again. There. There was a long time where I never even, no flat earth shit came up in my feed.

[: 01:30:18

[01:30:39] The

[: 01:30:39

[01:30:44] Jeff Nesbitt: Okay. So you know who Eddie Bravo is? I, I don't

[: 01:30:46

[01:30:50] Jeff Nesbitt: Okay. Well, he's the guy. He, he runs 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, and I think he's got, it's like a, a franchise.

[: 01:30:55

[01:31:14] Yeah. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And I watch 'em and they fascinate me because I, like you said, I don't believe that people believe this. And then so the more, and then I started listening to a conspiracy podcast. Yeah. Uh, one in particular, uh, tinfoil Hat with Sam Tripoli. Shout out Sam Tripoli great podcast.

[: 01:31:37

[01:31:53] Eric Svendsen: us. Yeah. You know, I, I, well, I also say, and I'm not saying that the two are or the two have anything to do with each other, but I also just found out that 20% of, uh, adults in the United States are functionally illiterate.

[: 01:32:06

[01:32:06] Jeff Nesbitt: 20%. 20%. That's all.

[: 01:32:09

[01:32:15] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. That's like somebody in 1990 saying they don't know anybody who's gay. That's true. So now that we know the statistics, the illiterates are gonna come out of the woodwork. Gotcha.

[: 01:32:26

[01:32:30] It's just that I, I haven't noticed,

[: 01:32:32

[01:32:34] Jeff Nesbitt: That is, yeah. That's concerning. Um, is that in

[: 01:32:36

[01:32:55] He just kind of says, this is my opinion and this is this person's opinion. All that kind of stuff. The only, the only fault that I find with that presentation is that it puts all opinions on the same footing. It's like, it's almost like your opinion as this guy who owns Jiujitsu Studio is the same as.

[: 01:33:16

[01:33:25] Jeff Nesbitt: same level. That that is exactly one of those psychological tricks that I was talking about. Yeah. Because we know most people know on a, on a rational level that that is not the case.

[: 01:33:35

[01:33:50] Eric Svendsen: expertise. And that's that post-modernism, that that's, that's kind of, that's just an, it's just like the renaissance.

[: 01:33:57

[01:34:19] We can do this research ourselves and look at it and form our own opinions. And we've got this sort of petulant 13 year old attitude. It's new. It is new. Yeah,

[: 01:34:28

[01:34:30] Eric Svendsen: When I was a kid, you know, yet, I don't know how old you are, but I'm 34. 34. So you're 14 years younger than me.

[: 01:34:37

[01:34:42] Jeff Nesbitt: still know my

[: 01:34:43

[01:34:54] Jeff Nesbitt: did you have a good set at home?

[: 01:34:57

[01:34:58] Eric Svendsen: Pretty good. We had, yeah, we had the, the, the full, it wasn't, it wasn't brand new by any means, but it was close enough, you know,

[: 01:35:04

[01:35:14] Nice. And we actually had two good sets of, because

[: 01:35:16

[01:35:20] Jeff Nesbitt: impact.

[: 01:35:20

[01:35:46] You can look up anything you want and you're putting cat ears on

[: 01:35:51

[01:35:53] Eric Svendsen: boobs. Yeah, yeah. No, they don't care. They'll look at anything. As far as I can tell, it's open season. But you're

[: 01:36:01

[01:36:06] Choice paralysis or, yeah, it's

[: 01:36:07

[01:36:23] I mean, you look at, there's no other species that is spread to every single environment that you can live in. That's so, I mean, like, you know, you look at us as just a very, cuz it is what we are, is we're just a, a, a, you know, fairly sophisticated primate. You know, we're a very sophisticated primate and we have this, this ability to think abstractly, this consciousness that allows us to like identify second level desires and act on 'em, or don't act on 'em.

[: 01:36:48

[01:37:10] Jeff Nesbitt: I I think for now, I, I think that the fact that we exist at all, any of us is that it's so, such a small chance that we were going to ever exist. Yeah. That like, existence matter, material existence existing at all. It's such a small chance that it could end at any moment. And we would, it'd still be amazing.

[: 01:37:29

[01:37:31] Eric Svendsen: You know, and that, and that's, and that's the thing I think is it's just you have to, you know, you have to realize that you, you everybody j just to be in a position to, I mean, look at a, you know, look at a, a, you know, a cow, right? A cows, a living thing. A cow is an organism that delicious you delicious living thing.

[: 01:37:50

[01:38:09] And once we realize that we exist, then we have a lot of questions. You know? And

[: 01:38:13

[01:38:19] Eric Svendsen: that, but now we're realizing there's side effects and lots of them. And that's, and that's part of that, that's part of that, um, that growth process.

[: 01:38:28

[01:38:40] Jeff Nesbitt: change. Yeah. I, I used to think that it was annoying when people resisted change and, um, You know, as a, I would say like, as a teenager, not really thinking about how I, I'm not very good at, with change at all.

[: 01:38:54

[01:39:03] From CPA to brew master

[: 01:39:03

[01:39:08] Eric Svendsen: brewer. Yeah. Yeah. That was, uh, it, it, it's actually a longer conversation, but it's fine.

[: 01:39:14

[01:39:41] When you're a young accountant, you work a lot of hours. I work 60, 70 hours a week. It was, you're trying to make partners this boiler. I mean, they, you gotta remember, this is also, you know, 20, you know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, there was lip service given to work-life balance, but they didn't really mean it, you know?

[: 01:39:59

[01:40:03] Jeff Nesbitt: And really, they're, your value comes from working hard and not really giving a fuck about your health. Oh, yeah. No, no. Or

[: 01:40:09

[01:40:14] And as a staff, you're expected to bill, I think 2,400, uh, hours, uh, a year. Right. So 2,400 hours a year, you do the math. 2080 hours in a standard 40 day work. 40 hour work week. Mm-hmm. With two weeks vacation, you're working a lot of overtime. You said you gotta go to the bathroom, you know, and so,

[: 01:40:37

[01:40:58] Um, I didn't quite reject it all, certainly, but I, I kind of said, well, I don't wanna work that hard anymore. And, and we had, we had some, um, you know, we, we had insurance set up and we had some other, other things with the accident that I guess gave me the ability to, to take a step back from that a little bit.

[: 01:41:15

[01:41:38] Yep, yep.

[: 01:41:39

[01:41:40] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. Our, our gen our generations got well and truly screwed by that. Uh, set us back 10, set us back a decade on wealth, uh, and the repercussions are gonna go on. Yeah. Um,

[: 01:41:51

[01:41:56] Eric Svendsen: poorer.

[: 01:41:57

[01:42:05] Jeff Nesbitt: There's some, there's some good stuff. They did a lot of great stuff too, and everybody just gets the generation that they get.

[: 01:42:10

[01:42:13] Eric Svendsen: roasted a lot. So we bought the house and I, I worked as a cfo, uh, financial officer at to trucking company in Vancouver for a couple years, uh, a few years. And then in 2010 we moved out here full-time and, uh, I worked at an accounting firm in Astoria and Michelle opened a cleaning company here on the beach and, uh, in Long Beach.

[: 01:42:33

[01:42:52] It's small town, you know, we'd go and lost Drew all the time and watch football just cuz we didn't have cable, we were just visiting, you know, that kind of thing. What year

[: 01:42:58

[01:43:00] Eric Svendsen: Uh, it must have been like two, 2009. 2010. Okay. Something like that. Because we opened because we, yeah cuz we started, we started brewing beer for the RU in 2012 and I think they'd been open a couple years, so it must have been 2010.

[: 01:43:19

[01:43:34] Chicos is back and they did such a good job. Awesome. That makes you so happy. It's, it's so

[: 01:43:39

[01:43:44] Eric Svendsen: I walked in there and like, even only, you know, having, I've been coming here for, you know, 15, 16 years now, and I, I walked in, it's like, ah, it's

[: 01:43:52

[01:43:52] Does it have games and

[: 01:43:53

[01:43:59] Jeff Nesbitt: I didn't, I'll check on that.

[: 01:44:00

[01:44:09] I was still doing that and I was considering buying in with that firm, but I didn't really wanna go back into public accounting. But it's, it's, I was always fairly good at

[: 01:44:16

[01:44:20] Eric Svendsen: It's not a real exciting job. I mean, I'm, I'm not saying it's not a good job, but doing other people's

[: 01:44:25

[01:44:26] Yeah. Oh, okay. So you're do or you do taxes, so, so it's like a heavy, busy season and then a little lighter the rest of the year. Yeah.

[: 01:44:33

[01:44:57] It wasn't professionally super satisfying. Okay. I, I would say it

[: 01:45:01

[01:45:03] Eric Svendsen: No. And I, I was having to drive across the bridge and they were working on both sides of it. And then remember we had that culvert and Chinook for a year or whatever it was. Oh, yeah. You know, by the bridge there, you know.

[: 01:45:13

[01:45:40] So, uh, Michelle and I bought them out of the LLC and rented the rest of the building and opened up the tap room in 2014, and kind of went from there. So I, I tell anybody, I absolutely stumbled into it, and I, you know, I, I talked to Mark and Mark's like, Hey, you know, I'm either going to, we're gonna keep, I don't want to keep doing the brewery.

[: 01:45:58

[01:46:07] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. And there is right across the river at

[: 01:46:09

[01:46:10] You know, and it's, and it's, you know, you remember, I mean, the, there, there was, you know, nine years ago, 10 years ago, you know, when we're talking about this, it was. You know, it drifts, drifts, perking up, you know, pickle fish is getting good. So other things are opening and they're starting to get this sort of ground swell of, you know, kind of becoming this a bit more upscale, you know, some facelift and that kind

[: 01:46:32

[01:46:32] Did you come here as a teenager or as a kid, or like, never. When was the first time you started getting to know the community in the, the area? 2007. Okay. So, oh man. Before adrift and before these businesses, there was nothing. There was like this vibe that everybody just understood you couldn't do a business here.

[: 01:46:49

[01:46:57] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. And maybe, I mean, we had only lived here full-time for a couple years, but Michelle had really done well with her job. You know, you guys kind of

[: 01:47:04

[01:47:05] Like those, that group. I, I really think that cluster of businesses, um, in, there's like a period of like seven or eight years where we had just like a bunch of killer businesses open you guys, um, adr, even I, the World Mark, even though they're big corporate business. Yeah. They were great

[: 01:47:22

[01:47:23] Well, the world Mark, you know, the ru um, you know, the, I, I look at those, I look at, then the drift distillers opened up, you know, faceless if the shell burn. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that there's just, you look at down in Oaco, the salt pub went in, you know, at the helm. Yeah. The salt's great. There's just been, there's been not, not just.

[: 01:47:45

[01:47:48] Jeff Nesbitt: Businesses that a community can be

[: 01:47:50

[01:48:00] I, I couldn't afford Cannon Beach when it came time that I wanted to buy a beach house, but I could afford Long Beach. I can't. I I, we were always

[: 01:48:07

[01:48:11] Eric Svendsen: version of, of the Beach Beach. People would say like, what's Long Beach? Like, you know? And, and I would be like, well, it's kinda like I picture Seaside in the sixties maybe.

[: 01:48:18

[01:48:24] Jeff Nesbitt: day, me and my daughter were watching The Simpsons and, um, Matt groaning from Portland, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, in this episode,

[: 01:48:31

[01:48:32] Jeff Nesbitt: after the streets.

[: 01:48:33

[01:48:54] And uh, as I'm watching, I'm like, no, it is, it's Cannon. Definitely Cannon Beach or, or Seaside. Like, yeah, I, why would they go, why if there's in Portland, he's going out to the coast, he's going to Seaside. Why would he make the trip to, to, to Long Beach? Unless to get away from that stuff. But, um, yeah, there all great little

[: 01:49:14

[01:49:14] So me, I mean we, so I, yeah, you guys definitely perked us up a little bit. Well, thank you. Thank you. You know, and, and, and, and it's funny you say that cuz I never, you know, I, I, I'm in the bubble. I, I go to work and I go home, you know, and that kind, I, and, and this town's been amazing the way they've supported us, the way they've embraced us, and, you know, uh, everybody carries our beer and I give huge props to, to Fort George.

[: 01:49:33

[01:49:56] And so, uh, we'd been dating for a while and I went off to London. And so Michelle brought her daughters out here just on a day trip. And she was like, oh, you'd love this place, you gotta check it out. And um, I was like, well, we wanted to buy a beach house. If you like it, let's go. Let's go check out some houses.

[: 01:50:13

[01:50:20] Jeff Nesbitt: maybe it was a little bit later. Really. I mean, this place is gorgeous from Yeah. July

[: 01:50:24

[01:50:29] Jeff Nesbitt: nice.

[: 01:50:29

[01:50:34] Eric Svendsen: And uh, we, we just fell in love with it, you know, and, and bought the house. We used to come every weekend and, um, just, you know, just loved it. And I appreciate that. You know, it's, it's been fun as we've gotten, as we've been here for a while now.

[: 01:50:46

[01:50:58] Jeff Nesbitt: speaking of that I remember thinking when you guys opened that I had never seen a business that was specifically like yours.

[: 01:51:05

[01:51:15] Eric Svendsen: or, so it was, it was really, it was really that it was taking what was going on in Portland and Vancouver because no one was really, I'm trying to think.

[: 01:51:25

[01:51:42] Jeff Nesbitt: Uh, I only heard two people ever talk about it. And they're not cool people.

[: 01:51:46

[01:51:50] Jeff Nesbitt: was, was good though, from those two people. Yeah.

[: 01:51:53

[01:52:02] So let's just talk Vancouver, cuz it's Washington. Uh, liquor control, uh, liquor and Cannabis. Now, uh, Which is strange. Well, it was great way cuz it was Washington State Liquor Control Board. Now it's Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board. So they didn't have to change their acronym. I thought it was brilliant.

[: 01:52:18

[01:52:30] Jeff Nesbitt: they're, they're brilliant. Those governments. Um,

[: 01:52:32

[01:52:42] So you had a brewery that produces X amount of beer and then you sell in the tap room. I'm like, look. And I, and I did the numbers. You know, that's one of the things that when I, when you look at brewers and you look at small business, it's people who go into business to do what they did. Right. For me, it was like, I looked at the numbers and I looked at what we were selling at Johnson's place, you know, through the Rue.

[: 01:53:03

[01:53:20] I wasn't 25

[: 01:53:21

[01:53:27] But it was like, I think that we can, especially in this area where nothing else like this exists. Mm-hmm. I think we can get it. And I had everybody come, oh, you know, ate taps and no food and I was like, I'm gonna give away peanuts. Like yeah. I won't do it. And Yeah, exactly.

[: 01:53:41

[01:53:41] Eric Svendsen: I remember that's why I love Chicos coming back so many pizzas.

[: 01:53:44

[01:53:47] Jeff Nesbitt: Chicos has sucked for a, a good It's been a while. While, yeah, it's while it's, it's,

[: 01:53:51

[01:53:55] Jeff Nesbitt: it was long before that, when they stopped. That's true. Letting you have free water.

[: 01:53:59

[01:54:05] Eric Svendsen: better. I know they do. They do. I did see, see a water jug. You do get water. Bec Well that's cuz you know, uh, Glen. Yeah. , Glen's the shit. His whole thing was, he wanted it to be like, it was Uhhuh like it was after, you know, the, the high, the kids and the games and you know, he wants to big ba bring back this sense of community, this sense of Chicos was the fucking spot.

[: 01:54:26

[01:54:28] Jeff Nesbitt: huge. Yeah. Everybody would go there after every Highschool varsity game. Yeah. The, the whole cool crowd would pile in their cars and go to Chico's and then it'd just be like, everybody there. Well, you didn't go to school here. No. It's,

[: 01:54:42

[01:54:47] Jeff Nesbitt: Well, I don't know about

[: 01:54:48

[01:54:57] Jeff Nesbitt: each other. Now. The kids seem like they're different than when I was young.

[: 01:54:59

[01:55:06] Eric Svendsen: not bullying my

[: 01:55:07

[01:55:10] Eric Svendsen: then. I ended up at a hicks school in Hazeldale, Washington. Oh, that sounds Hickish Damn Hazel. But I graduated with 350.

[: 01:55:16

[01:55:23] Jeff Nesbitt: . I mean, there's bigger, but No, no, I mean there, there's, you know, my class

[: 01:55:26

[01:55:30] Graduated 18. Yeah. Can't you imagine. But, you know, so it was, uh, uh, I don't remember we got off on that. But anyway, I, I've been, I have loved being in, uh, this town. There's parts of it that are different. I grew up in Portland and I lived in Vancouver, and so moving to a very small town, there was definitely some stuff to get used to.

[: 01:55:51

[01:55:52] Jeff Nesbitt: in the middle of the night

[: 01:55:53

[01:56:07] It it's not sandwich related. It's more like, you know. Yeah. I would get texts. It's like, Hey, I saw your car at the auto shop. What's up, Uhhuh just getting an oil change. Nothing's up. What, what's

[: 01:56:17

[01:56:18] Eric Svendsen: drug deal? Yeah. I was like, it is like everybody could see everything that you're doing and where you're at and all this kind of stuff, and it was like

[: 01:56:25

[01:56:27] Eric Svendsen: Uh, I can imagine. It's gotta make, I mean, I, yeah, it's either gonna make you real private or super open. Yeah. You,

[: 01:56:33

[01:56:44] Don't use the smartphone, nothing with chips because, or you can, you know, embrace it all and take full advantage of it. Because otherwise, anywhere in between those two things, even though we just started this podcast by saying that nothing's black and white. Yeah. That kind of, you have to pick one or the other because anywhere in between you lose benefits of

[: 01:57:04

[01:57:04] Right, right. Yeah. No, it is really true. Yeah. And that's what I realized in this small town is it is it's, you have to just be okay with, you know, people knowing what you're doing.

[: 01:57:15

[01:57:23] Eric Svendsen: watching you.

[: 01:57:23

[01:57:34] Jeff Nesbitt: sponsor my race team. But

[: 01:57:35

[01:57:40] I mean, you know that you exist and you know that people sell your beer and they come and they have fun. But you have no, at least I ne I don't have any concept of mm-hmm. Of, you know, worth their value to the community or anything that Oh,

[: 01:57:51

[01:58:03] Eric Svendsen: Uh, that's our Hood deco team. Yeah. It was, uh, Sarah Taylor, or I think it was Sarah Taylor. It was either Sarah or, uh, Sutherland. Tom. Tom. Tom. I think I, but I, but I think it, I think it was Sarah or what's her sister that moved away? Heidi. Heidi, one of the two of them. Or, or maybe, maybe even Chris Miller back in the day used to come in.

[: 01:58:28

[01:58:33] but anyway, one of them did and they just said, uh uh, no, no, no.

[: 01:58:37

[01:58:38] Jeff Nesbitt: Oh, Dustin. It was Dustin. Dustin still on the team. Yeah, it was

[: 01:58:41

[01:58:47] Jeff Nesbitt: that man is impressive. He doesn't, he's a great guy. He doesn't look at first glance like he'd be some kind of a supreme athlete, but he'll just get out and just run like a motherfucker.

[: 01:58:56

[01:59:10] Can I like, you know, buy your gas or something or, so I'd, I'd like to, I'd like to be more involved if we can. I mean, I'd like to truly sponsor it. Oh, you're just, we're just repping. Yeah. Cool. But I mean, if we can help out some way, I mean, if we can cover gas or we can do something for food or something, I mean, just to, just to even kind of make it a little more fun for you guys kind of thing.

[: 01:59:30

[01:59:30] Jeff Nesbitt: it, it seems like it could be spread around a little bit better. I we all throwing a couple bucks for whoever the person is who plans all things, but I think it, it ends up being expensive probably for them. We wanted to get into financials and everything, but Sure, sure.

[: 01:59:43

[01:59:45] Eric Svendsen: Well if you ever, like I said, we, we, I think it's fun that you guys do it, so if there's ever any way that we can help you, Sarah, you

[: 01:59:51

[01:59:58] Eric Svendsen: return. Gotcha. Yeah. We'll, we'll let, we'll let her know and We'll, Sarah's awesome. I'd like to do something more for it. Yeah. But no, it's, it's, it's been a lot of fun being part of that. It's been fun seeing the, the, the videos and all that.

[: 02:00:10

[02:00:16] Jeff Nesbitt: yeah, I get a shirt every year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. It's pretty nice. Very cool. Pretty nice. It's a, that's a fun event.

[: 02:00:22

[02:00:23] Eric Svendsen: I, uh, the first accounting firm I worked at back in 98, we had a Hooded coast team. And, uh, I tried to run, and I am, I'm not

[: 02:00:33

[02:00:37] Eric Svendsen: there. I'm not an athlete and

[: 02:00:39

[02:00:41] Uh, no, actually that's what, that's where I'm wrong. We mostly are just like Yeah. Old people who are still trying to run. But um, we go and get a few really fast young people Sure. And bring a man ringers.

[: 02:00:53

[02:01:03] Oh, is he a runner? I dunno. He was a professional soccer player. What's So I'm guessing he can run. I have no idea. Uh, you know, right there, you know, uh, where, uh, Jenna used to be right there, uh, where the dentist was, same parking lot as Kovski.

[: 02:01:18

[02:01:20] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. The, the, the, uh, the fly fishing place. Yeah. Yeah. He played for the timbers. What? Yeah. He never mentioned

[: 02:01:26

[02:01:33] Eric Svendsen: But anyway, he run, I liked him. Yeah. Yeah. Nice guy. He couldn't, they couldn't made quite a bit. Yeah. He nice to people. Yeah. But anyway, um, no, I, I, uh, so what I did is I tried to run and I ended up getting a stress fracture in my ankle.

[: 02:01:45

[02:01:49] Jeff Nesbitt: Runners get stress fractures. Yeah. That's, that means you are a runner. So I

[: 02:01:52

[02:01:55] Jeff Nesbitt: quit. I quit. Oh,

[: 02:01:56

[02:02:03] Jeff Nesbitt: I probably should have done that this year actually. Yeah. I, I had an injury halfway through the second leg and I, I, I just couldn't. Did you keep going? I kept going. I hurt myself worse a little bit. Yeah, I can imagine. But. I couldn't, I couldn't stop. Well, that's good. I have a, this is how I run and it's, it made it to where I, I end up hurting myself worse most of the time.

[: 02:02:27

[02:02:44] I I, I ran a marathon off the couch doing that. Wow. And it destroyed my body. But I mean,

[: 02:02:48

[02:02:58] Jeff Nesbitt: about That's a Mel Gibson movie and it's a fantastic

[: 02:03:00

[02:03:07] And his whole thing was, if I can get halfway, then it's less to go forward than to go back. Oh yeah. I

[: 02:03:16

[02:03:27] The, that I, I remember talking about the music. Now I'm realizing I said this twice, but it's about a different thing. But, um, I would break it up into exertion chunks and I could think about 'em as units. Like I can get through, uh, if the race takes about six minutes, half of it is three minutes and it's a 2000 meter race, half of it is a thousand meters, three minutes for a thousand meters.

[: 02:03:50

[02:04:06] And it would like, the momentum of that felt like a weight pushing me through the finish line. Yeah. I loved thinking like that.

[: 02:04:12

[02:04:23] Another

[: 02:04:23

[02:04:25] Eric Svendsen: Pretty much anywhere. Pretty, you know, when we're doing remodels for the brewery and getting Michelle's stuff going, it's always like, all right, I just gotta get this much done and then I'm gonna be done. I'm gonna be done for today. And it's like, you can't look at the whole project.

[: 02:04:37

[02:04:39] Jeff Nesbitt: the plague of the person, like, uh, myself with I, I have adhd and what happens with me is that if I set it down, if I set the project down mentally it just sometimes just disappears. Yeah. Unless it's like, unless I'm getting paid for it. If I get paid for it, I've always got that dopamine right there.

[: 02:04:56

[02:05:17] Eric Svendsen: Is there an upside to ADHD in your mind? Hell yeah. Yeah. Oh, lots of 'em. Just tons of

[: 02:05:22

[02:05:37] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. It's different, you know, different people. It's, it's almost like, you know, there, there's this podcast I was listening to and it's like, you know, if you play the Vikings, you get plus four ferocity, and if you play the Arabs, you get plus four math, you know, and if you play Germany, you get plus four, you know, industry and that kind of thing.

[: 02:05:54

[02:06:18] Jeff Nesbitt: those.

[: 02:06:19

[02:06:38] Yeah. So you have to try to, uh, plan for unpredictability, which is kind of an oxymoron. Yeah. But it, it's the, it's the truth. And then that makes you really resilient to dealing with disappointment. So it, you start to be able to apply that skill to other areas of your life and real. And then you realize the very important lesson that failure is, is not the end.

[: 02:07:00

[02:07:04] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. Failure, you know, it's Western Churchill failure's not final, you know, success isn't last forever. You know, it's the courage to go on, you know, and it's to keep fighting. And that's one of the things I think you touched on another fantastic quote.

[: 02:07:15

[02:07:36] The perfect

[: 02:07:37

[02:07:39] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. Where

[: 02:07:39

[02:07:50] Eric Svendsen: Yeah. And, and, and people, and people thrive on that.

[: 02:07:53

[02:08:11] It's what drives us. But

[: 02:08:12

[02:08:25] Well, and you're doing

[: 02:08:26

[02:08:45] It's like balance is the

[: 02:08:46

[02:09:00] And people use contentment and happiness as synonyms, but I think balanced and have, and contentment is, is more you want like that spiritual perfect equilibrium feeling.

[: 02:09:09

[02:09:20] Yes, exactly. It doesn't imply that because there's happiness, hedonic happiness that comes from joy and pleasure and eating a, you know, beating a big steak and having sex and these kind of things. But

[: 02:09:31

[02:09:31] Eric Svendsen: awfully rich taste, rich hedonic. It's, it's, it's, it's pleasurable. It's joyful. But there's also you demonic happiness was meaning and purpose and striving and fulfillingness.

[: 02:09:43

[02:10:08] It's the, the Greek hero versus, what was their word for it? You demonic. You demonic. You demonic. Uh, and it was bas it's translated as happiness, but it's not quite right. It's more of a flourishing life. A,

[: 02:10:22

[02:10:25] Eric Svendsen: It, it's, it's all those things.

[: 02:10:27

[02:10:46] And it's the achy guy. The witch. The

[: 02:10:49

[02:11:07] He speaks Japanese. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. No, it's, I've, I've just known it by the Japanese word, not by the English translation, but it's, I just know it to mean that the reason for getting outta bed in the morning and, and we talk

[: 02:11:19

[02:11:30] It runs through Native American philosophy. It runs through any time you talk to a human being, this idea of meaning and purpose and striving for excellence is an ingrained part of the human condition.

[: 02:11:44

[02:11:52] Yeah. Is, is like the, the journey is the destination. And it's very

[: 02:11:57

[02:12:16] And that's, that's the hard part I think that most people have, is that they want to keep messing with the arrow after they release it.

[: 02:12:23

[02:12:42] Maybe you can affect

[: 02:12:43

[02:13:07] You know, they're, they're good, but they're very inward looking where, and that's always been the knock against virtue, virtue ethics. It's true. It's true. Is that they're, they don't concern themselves really with making the wider world a better place. Yeah. Right. And that's always been the knock against them.

[: 02:13:21

[02:13:40] Jeff Nesbitt: Yes. Yes. Cuz once you're crazy, you're no good to anybody. Well it's

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[02:13:48] Jeff Nesbitt: and well, yeah. Coming to terms with those is tough, but it's definitely necessary for people who go, go down those roads in the first place.

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[02:14:06] Eric Svendsen: good enough. Well, and I, and I think that there's the people that walk down the roads, they see the things that are down those roads that people who don't don't.

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[02:14:18] Jeff Nesbitt: what's really annoying is when the people who don't go down the roads wanna tell you why there's nothing down there. Sure. Happens. Absolutely. all the

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[02:14:33] And what you should do is this. You, I'm sure you hear it about your podcast. Well, this is the direction ya oughta take it in and this is what

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[02:14:48] Eric Svendsen: I listen, I, I I've listened to, uh, uh, few of

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[02:15:08] Our brewer

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[02:15:12] Jeff Nesbitt: Yeah. It's, it's, it's soul

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[02:15:22] Jeff Nesbitt: I still go on and look at, well, I look at TikTok and Instagram occasionally, but I don't post anymore.

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[02:15:37] Eric Svendsen: again. Well, you know, it is that whole idea. It's that the one thing that I've really tried to remove from myself is that, that fomo, that fear of missing out.

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[02:15:49] Jeff Nesbitt: man. That's just like, I think about that so much,

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[02:15:54] Jeff Nesbitt: or not. Yeah. People talk about that. Like, oh, I'm gonna, I can't go to the party and I'm gonna miss out.

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[02:16:18] They could all be different. I could have this one a bunch of times. Who knows? I could have just one and then it'd be done. Who knows? Yeah. Do you have a favorite theory?

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